This isn't the first time ...

[Kingy_85]

This isn't the first time we've fallen into a rut under Pearson.

Remember the 2012/2013 season? With the infamous Knockaert missed penalty at the end in the playoffs.

We went 9 games without a win at one stage and just 4 wins from the last 20 games of the season. Almost fell out of the playoffs from a very secure position.

We never looked like we would get out of the rut and there was no explanation for the sudden drop in form and complete loss of confidence and ability some players started to show.

How did we get out of that run? The season ended we came back stronger and won the league.

I feel very similar to back then at the moment.

 

[st albans fox]

This isn't the first time we've fallen into a rut under Pearson.

Remember the 2012/2013 season? With the infamous Knockaert missed penalty at the end in the playoffs.

We went 9 games without a win at one stage and just 4 wins from the last 20 games of the season. Almost fell out of the playoffs from a very secure position.

We never looked like we would get out of the rut and there was no explanation for the sudden drop in form and complete loss of confidence and ability some players started to show.

How did we get out of that run? The season ended we came back stronger and won the league.

I feel very similar to back then at the moment.

We need a md season break and everything will be ok thereafter. maybe we shouldnt turn up for the next four games? we wont get a result anyway and four 3-0 defeats will probably be a better GD return than playing them. then we can start afresh and take 30 points from our final 19 games

on a serious note, i have asked this before but ive never seen pearson interviewed on this subject. why he wasnt able to turn it around. can only assume he refuses to discuss it.

 

[The Old Fox]

We need a md season break and everything will be ok thereafter. maybe we shouldnt turn up for the next four games? we wont get a result anyway and four 3-0 defeats will probably be a better GD return than playing them. then we can start afresh and take 30 points from our final 19 games

on a serious note, i have asked this before but ive never seen pearson interviewed on this subject. why he wasnt able to turn it around. can only assume he refuses to discuss it.

We've tried that for the last 10 games, and it didn't work. :icon_bigg

 

[LeeCovFox]

I have likened this run to that experienced during the second half of 2012/13 already. Back then I was calling for Pearson's head and was convinced (I may even have posted it here) that he was never going to be capable of achieving promotion. Then he made me look a right twat and learned from all the mistakes (many of which were undoubtedly his) made through that period and led us to one of the most enjoyable seasons I have ever experienced as a football fan.

My view now is that he is slow to adapt which makes it difficult for him to arrest a bad run, but also that he obviously reflects on his performance and rectified any shortfalls in the long run. I believe he can do the same again and think we should stick with him. I'll be quite happy if in three or four years time we can look back on this season (assuming it ends in relegation) and think of it as a learning experience for a manager who has since led us to West Brom-esque top flight mediocrity for a few seasons, which is probably as much as a club our size can realistically aspire to these days (or indeed almost at any time since WW2).

If we don't manage to come back then we can change the manager then. Although I'm not even sure I'd be doing so in the future unless we aren't promotion challengers in the second tier, which is more or less our historical level.

 

[Redditch Fox]

If we don't manage to come back then we can change the manager then. Although I'm not even sure I'd be doing so in the future unless we aren't promotion challengers in the second tier, which is more or less our historical level.

I think the historic position of the club is as a yo yo club between the two top divisions - which is different to your ascription.

When I was a kid the yo yo term was commonly used to describe Leicester.

The difference between 12/13 and now is that we are in a different league and the situation is that the transition from the Championship to the Premier League is a big leap. The club/ Pearson/whoever underestimated the size of the leap. They probably thought that the strugglers in the Premier League weren't much better than the top teams in the Championship. Unfortunatelythis has not proved to be the case. There is a big gap and this fact was not addressed.

 

[LeeCovFox]

I think the historic position of the club is as a yo yo club between the two top divisions - which is different to your ascription.

When I was a kid the yo yo term was commonly used to describe Leicester.

The difference between 12/13 and now is that we are in a different league and the situation is that the transition from the Championship to the Premier League is a big leap. The club/ Pearson/whoever underestimated the size of the leap. They probably thought that the strugglers in the Premier League weren't much better than the top teams in the Championship. Unfortunatelythis has not proved to be the case. There is a big gap and this fact was not addressed.

On the club's historic position; I agree. But you can't be a yo-yo club without challenging for promotion. I think our average historical position is 23rd in the football league, so third n the second tier in the current structure.

On the rest; I also agree. We have failed to make the leap in the mistaken belief that our current players are good enough. I thought they would be myself and I still find myself surprised that a squad which won the second division so easily is struggling so badly now. I don't think it's simply about playing ability though.

I don't think the gap between the two leagues is that big at all. Most promoted clubs survive and most don't revamp entire squads. We failed to make improvements where we needed them (new full backs, at least one centre back) and Pearson has struggled to adapt tactically. These are both things which can be learned from, though.

 

[Hazzman]

On the club's historic position; I agree. But you can't be a yo-yo club without challenging for promotion. I think our average historical position is 23rd in the football league, so third n the second tier in the current structure.

23rd in the all-time points list but if I remember right our average position is 21st. When you consider for the vast period of English football, the top flight was 24 teams. Yo-yo is about as apt description you can get.

Without knowing details of negotiations in the summer, we will never know what went wrong. My hunch was that we wouldn't/couldn't pay the expected wages and instead we tried to pick the top players of the Championship who were affordable in this department despite large transfer fees. A lot of fans are criticising the length of contracts handed out to De Laet and King plus others; my understanding is that will be on a fair to middle wage, which will go down as a result of relegation and go up if we stay in the Premier League. Similarly it will be littered with clauses should offers come in for either of them. It's very easy to just write off a player in the space of a few games etc. There's a long game that the club are playing here.

Ultimately, we have to model what West Brom did a few seasons back where three Premier League seasons were pretty dire; although one season they had an incredible escape with a total woodplank of a manager. However, they came back stronger as a result and in end, they have found that formula. West Brom learnt more about it as a club - having people like Jeremy Peace and Dan Ashworth there were far more important than any manager. They never worried when going down to the Championship though and kept faith with what they had. Birmingham did the same under McLeish too when the Porno Twins didn't worry about relegation.

 

[Jeff]

When you consider for the vast period of English football, the top flight was 24 teams.

22 teams.

 

[Redditch Fox]

On the club's historic position; I agree. But you can't be a yo-yo club without challenging for promotion. I think our average historical position is 23rd in the football league, so third n the second tier in the current structure.

On the rest; I also agree. We have failed to make the leap in the mistaken belief that our current players are good enough. I thought they would be myself and I still find myself surprised that a squad which won the second division so easily is struggling so badly now. I don't think it's simply about playing ability though.

I don't think the gap between the two leagues is that big at all. Most promoted clubs survive and most don't revamp entire squads. We failed to make improvements where we needed them (new full backs, at least one centre back) and Pearson has struggled to adapt tactically. These are both things which can be learned from, though.

Yes this disastrous run has come as a nasty shock and it does seem more than a coincidence that there was a similar bad sequence in 12/13.

I think Hazzman's inplication that we don't have a lot of hard football knowledge outside Pearson within the football owners/ hierarchy is about right. I guess it was a collective view to cap the wage structure making it difficult to sign the sort of quality where as a promoted club we needed to pay a premium. This financial 'discipline' chimed with Pearson's much stated view that the squad was OK. to compete

Assuming the owners are ambitious (- and they have seemed to be - and they want to continue - and if they don't they ain't going to be able to vacate a Championship club without financial pain) then lessons will be probably learned for the future.

The only place for reward and profile is in the Premier League .....and it costs to secure a stay there.

 

[Real Sharapova]

The only place for reward and profile is in the Premier League .....and it costs to secure a stay there.

But the problem is, splashing the cash doesn't guarantee that you will stay up. There is still the inescapable fact that three teams will go down every season.

 

[Lako42]

I can't imagine the Thais think they will improve the reputation of the club in Thailand by sticking with a Championship squad and struggling all season.

Which is why I am surprised we have signed maybe 2 players of any worth.

Their plans and vision is not matched by the players signed or the noise from the management, so either they aren't that bothered or Pearson has decided it's not necessary.

 

[FryattFox]

Given the clear issue of a football club that is being managed by a Board with very limited footballing experience, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they thought that they had done enough over the summer. We:

- signed a technically world class midfielder who played 32 matches in Serie A last year.
- splashed c.£8m on a striker to (hopefully) score the necessary goals
- recruited a 25 yo with almost 100 PL appearances

Add to that the experience added by Upson and Simpson, I would guess that they thought that they had done enough. They probably looked over at Burnley and QPR and weren't too worried.

Despite some people's concerns, I don't see any reason why the team can't compete at this level. We managed fine for the first 5 games, and there are equally weak teams out there with similar gaping holes in quality. We're just disorganised and lacking direction at the moment, and unfortunately I can't see NP pulling us out of it any time soon.

 

[The Old Fox]

My guess (and please note that word 'guess' before asking for any proof) is that it was Nigel Pearson who kept incoming numbers down in the summer. I suspect that he is the sort of manager who, not only demands absolute loyalty from his players, but also gives the same to his squad. I think that he wanted to give everyone who took us up a fair chance and didn't want a large squad to whom he was unable to promise regular football. Indeed, I seem to remember a couple of interviews before/early season in which he said as much. Even supposing that a hat full of Premier League quality players were to be available in January, I would be most surprised to see more than two first team players added to the squad.

 

[Redditch Fox]

But the problem is, splashing the cash doesn't guarantee that you will stay up. There is still the inescapable fact that three teams will go down every season.

Absolutely right.

But not investing adequately almost guarantees that you will not stay up.

 

[Redditch Fox]

My guess (and please note that word 'guess' before asking for any proof) is that it was Nigel Pearson who kept incoming numbers down in the summer. I suspect that he is the sort of manager who, not only demands absolute loyalty from his players, but also gives the same to his squad. I think that he wanted to give everyone who took us up a fair chance and didn't want a large squad to whom he was unable to promise regular football. Indeed, I seem to remember a couple of interviews before/early season in which he said as much. Even supposing that a hat full of Premier League quality players were to be available in January, I would be most surprised to see more than two first team players added to the squad.

Probably sums up the position. Pearson made it clear enough that he was going to go with his Championship squad.

They won't spend much in January = probably go for loan deals as Jeff mentioned. They would get ripped off in the transfer market and in any case will be factoring in highly probable relegation into their planning.

Sorry this is a bit of a depressing scenario - but it's a poor situation (still think tho' that there may be a pleasant surprise on Saturday).

 

[step]

This isn't the first time we've fallen into a rut under Pearson.
Remember the 2012/2013 season? With the infamous Knockaert missed penalty at the end in the playoffs.
We went 9 games without a win at one stage and just 4 wins from the last 20 games of the season. Almost fell out of the playoffs from a very secure position.
We never looked like we would get out of the rut and there was no explanation for the sudden drop in form and complete loss of confidence and ability some players started to show.
How did we get out of that run? The season ended we came back stronger and won the league.
I feel very similar to back then at the moment.

We are in a rut and just like last time there is something wrong and when the whole squad is affected, We can only assume that it is the same cause for all of the players and if the cause can be found the problem can be solved. So, what could have enough influence on the players to switch them all off.
1) Have they whole squad turned into Cocain junkies?
2) Have the all become Alcoholics?
3) Are still celebrating the win against Man U?
4) Is one team member destroying the morale?
5) Has one of the Management team destroyed the squad?

I know what my money is on.

 

[ChrisFilter]

I don't think any of those are true. They're simply in a rut because no-one pikes losing, and no-one likes being bottom of the league. They're all still playing for Pearson, they just need a win. And then another.

 

[Lako42]

Hedgehogs hey, why can't they just share?

 

[spionfox]

(still think tho' that there may be a pleasant surprise on Saturday).

Would be just like us wouldn't it?!

 

[spionfox]

I don't think any of those are true. They're simply in a rut because no-one pikes losing

I know. It's carp isn't it.