Trick or treat

[Jeff]

So does Halloween make good people do bad things?

No.

 

[SwedeFox]

No.

So if the thugs attacking the old man justified their actions by a quote from the Old Testament, would you then it's the religion that is at fault?

Because, as Macky pointed out, when people go trick or treating violently, they are thugs and that has nothing to do with Halloween. I think it's precisely the same when people commit murders in the name of Jesus or Allah.

 

[Macky]

Just generally. I remember someone saying way back when religion was discussed something like "religion makes good people do bad things". I don't agree with that at all, I would say it's a similar situation to the one you described above. I think bad people do bad things and sometimes they use religion as an excuse - just like they sometimes use Halloween as an excuse.

But that's been discussed over and over again in other threads, in fact I will go back and have a nice little read now.

I think you're trying to conflate two unrelated things Swedeykins. Religion can make good people do bad things, that's evident, but these are just little ****s, acting like little ****s in the same way that they probably do every other day of the year. The fact that they're trying to use a distorted idea of Halloween has nothing to do with Halloween itself.
If they're acting the **** then deal with their actions, don't try and blame it on a harmless fun festival. It's ****ing absurd.

 

[Jeff]

Because, as Macky pointed out, when people go trick or treating violently, they are thugs and that has nothing to do with Halloween. I think it's precisely the same when people commit murders in the name of Jesus or Allah.

Jehovah's witnesses believe that having a blood transfusion is a sin, and they will not go to heaven if they have one. This means they will not let their children have blood transfusions, even if it could mean the child dies.
They don't do this because they're evil people, they do it because they care about their children and want them to go to heaven. They're good people, but believe in bollocks that makes them do bad things.

 

[Macky]

as Macky pointed out, when people go trick or treating violently, they are thugs and that has nothing to do with Halloween. I think it's precisely the same when people commit murders in the name of Jesus or Allah.

No, not the same thing at all. Thugs will be thugs, regardless of the calender date. The people committing murders in the name of imaginary deities wouldn't have killed anybody had they never heard of their particular religion.

 

[SwedeFox]

No, not the same thing at all. Thugs will be thugs, regardless of the calender date. The people committing murders in the name of imaginary deities wouldn't have killed anybody had they never heard of their particular religion.

The fact they're trying to use a distorted idea of religion has nothing to do with religion itself.

 

[SwedeFox]

Jehovah's witnesses believe that having a blood transfusion is a sin, and they will not go to heaven if they have one. This means they will not let their children have blood transfusions, even if it could mean the child dies.
They don't do this because they're evil people, they do it because they care about their children and want them to go to heaven. They're good people, but believe in bollocks that makes them do bad things.

Ok, I see your point, although I think it's difficult to say what's 'good' and 'bad'. We would both agree here that this is 'bad', but you may say that religion makes good people do bad things when it comes to abortion while many non-religious people don't think that's bad at all.

 

[Jeff]

The fact they're trying to use a distorted idea of religion has nothing to do with religion itself.

The bible says children should be killed if they disrespect their parents.

The bible says a woman who has been raped should be forced to marry the rapist.

The bible says we can have slaves.


If a christian doesn't agree with these things, they are following a distorted version of the religion.

 

[SwedeFox]

The bible says children should be killed if they disrespect their parents.

The bible says a woman who has been raped should be forced to marry the rapist.

The bible says we can have slaves.


If a christian doesn't agree with these things, they are following a distorted version of the religion.

Not at all, because the Bible also says this which clearly contradicts all of them: http://www.bible-knowledge.com/10-commandments/

As the Bible seems so clearly contradictory on these things, it means you would need to interpret the message of the Bible. Can you honestly say that, based on reading the Bible from start to finish, you think it contains a message to go out and kill other people? If so, we'll have to agree to disagree I'm afraid (although we could of course have a quote battle where you quote Bible words that support murder and I quote Bible words that condemn them).

 

[Macky]

The fact they're trying to use a distorted idea of religion has nothing to do with religion itself.

In what way is it distorted?

 

[Macky]

Not at all, because the Bible also says this which clearly contradicts all of them: http://www.bible-knowledge.com/10-commandments/

As the Bible seems so clearly contradictory on these things, it means you would need to interpret the message of the Bible. Can you honestly say that, based on reading the Bible from start to finish, you think it contains a message to go out and kill other people? If so, we'll have to agree to disagree I'm afraid (although we could of course have a quote battle where you quote Bible words that support murder and I quote Bible words that condemn them).

That's because it is all contradictory bollocks from start to finish.

 

[SwedeFox]

In what way is it distorted?

In the way that the message of the Bible is not one of hatred but of love. See, I did that with my Bill O'Reilly voice just for you :icon_wink

 

[SwedeFox]

That's because it is all contradictory bollocks from start to finish.

Then you haven't studied it enough. Why do people think Theology is easy just because everyone can become a Christian?

I would like to add here that I'm not a Christian (only culturally) but I do like an argument from time to time.

 

[Jeff]

Not at all, because the Bible also says this which clearly contradicts all of them: http://www.bible-knowledge.com/10-commandments/

The commandment is "You shall not murder."

If other parts of the bible say you can kill someone, it is not murder, it's what god wants.

Notice the commandments don't mention rape, child abuse, slavery etc. The first four are all about god's ego.

 

[Macky]

In the way that the message of the Bible is not one of hatred but of love. See, I did that with my Bill O'Reilly voice just for you :icon_wink

Sorry Bill, the message that I got from the Bible is one of vile hatred and nothing to do with love at all.

Then you haven't studied it enough.

I have read it intently, more than once, and have studied it as part of my escape from the shackles of religion. The Bible is contradictory bollocks from start to ****ing finish. It is the ramblings of ignorant bronze age desert dwellers and should be treated as the curiosity that it is.

Why do people think Theology is easy just because everyone can become a Christian?

Very, very few Christians have ever even picked up a Bible. Most of them have no idea what is in there and religious leaders certainly wouldn't want them to go reading it for themselves because most would reject their religion after reading it. It is mostly vile, horrible and disgusting ideas.

 

[SwedeFox]

The commandment is "You shall not murder."

If other parts of the bible say you can kill someone, it is not murder, it's what god wants.

Notice the commandments don't mention rape, child abuse, slavery etc. The first four are all about god's ego.

Jesus said: Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets.

How would you justify rape if you were to follow that?

If there are contradictory commandments in the Bible, then logic tells us Christians can't follow both. In any other situation, in real life, where such a situation would come up, you would go for the most likely option - say, for the option that is most heavily emphazized in the Bible and seems most important to God.

As Jesus tells us to love rather than hate about a gazillion time in the New Testament, I can't quite see how you come to the solution that the Bible urge Christians to do these things that you mentioned.

 

[SwedeFox]

I have read it intently, more than once, and have studied it as part of my escape from the shackles of religion. The Bible is contradictory bollocks from start to ****ing finish. It is the ramblings of ignorant bronze age desert dwellers and should be treated as the curiosity that it is.

Has the saying "as the Devil reads the Bible" made it into the English language? No, but I fully understand that, especially if you come from a more stricly religious background than me. The most important value to me is that people should be able to whatever they want to, and that's why I'm 100 % against any sort of restrictions for gay couples, abortion etc based on religious traditions.

 

[Jeff]

If there are contradictory commandments in the Bible, then logic tells us Christians can't follow both.

Logic tells us that those contradictions should tell people the whole thing is a load of bollocks. People who believe it don't use logic. Either that or they just know the bits they've been told about in church.

As Jesus tells us to love rather than hate about a gazillion time in the New Testament, I can't quite see how you come to the solution that the Bible urge Christians to do these things that you mentioned.

Jesus also said that what had been written before (the old testament) is still valid.

 

[SwedeFox]

Logic tells us that those contradictions should tell people the whole thing is a load of bollocks. People who believe it don't use logic. Either that or they just know the bits they've been told about in church.

Why? Who said that religion should be easy to understand?

Regarding your other point: yes, but you can't do both, you have to follow one thing. So why would you go for child murder when Jesus condemns it later on?

 

[Jeff]

Why?

Why what?

Who said that religion should be easy to understand?

If "god" wants people to do what he wants he should make it easy enough for his followers to know what they're supposed to be doing.