Wales manager Gary Speed confirmed dead

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Let me follow up with a question:

Do you think Tiger Woods was treated unfairly by the media when his personal life was exposed?
 
Let me follow up with a question:

Do you think Tiger Woods was treated unfairly by the media when his personal life was exposed?

That's a totally different point as tiger was making loads of money by selling his wholesome family man image, his sponsors had a right to know the lie. If he had died I would say there was no need to rake over the past.
 
You'll get one..a complicated question needs a well thought out response...not auto correct on an iPhone with a cracked down the screen.

When I get to my desk I'll have a stab at it.
 
Fair enough :)

OK. Let me try and organize my thoughts. This will meander and veer into profros type bollocks I fear.

I want to speak first of privacy. In truth, it is becoming an archaic ideal, a myth and a relic of a previous era. For better or worse I think this is simple fact.

Take, for example, you and I Matt. 10 years ago I wouldn't be a blip on your radar, you would have been ignorant to my very existence. Here we are today and with half a day you could (legally) find out almost everything about me simply from my posts on a Leicester city forum.

You could glean my name, my location, my age, my job. From there you could gather previous addresses, family tree, work history, educational background. You'd be able to tell what I looked like, you'd probably be able to hear my voice, my citizenship status, my wireless provider, phone numbers, where and when I was born, email addresses, any medical history and a surfeit of other information. And those are just the basic facts.

There have been advances in psychology that mean, based on the above information, as well as my 3000+ posts on here and anything I have shared publicly on Facebook, Twitter, and whatever else, you could begin to understand WHO I am as a person. My politics, my ethical values. Word choice and patterns can expose some things people hold true.

If I gave you 3 days, you could come to understand me better than I understand myself. Here is where the rubber meets the road. I have to be accountable for everything you find. This very post could be printed out and put on my desk and I would be accountable for it. Drunken tweets, my 10,000 emails to my fiancee on my work account, anything and everything is fair game. I have to be able to say "yep, that's me...I'm weird and a little ****ed-up".

In a way I think that's a beautiful thing. The modern era has gotten us closer to understanding the human experience than we've ever been. We are all being exposed for the imperfect, ****ed-up, idiosyncratic people we truly are. We see the truth.

Now, I don't think our moral codes have caught up with the death of privacy just yet. We still hold people to impossible standards. We expect perfection...it's an unfair target. My belief is that over the next 10-15 years we will be more forgiving and more compassionate when people make mistakes, because we will understand that we ALL make mistakes.

Now, with all of that new world mumbo-jumbo out of the way...let me breach the original question:

Would I break the story? Yes. But I'd be exceptionally careful, I would triple-check my sources, I would reach out to the family and give them all the information I had and I'd be mindful and as respectful as possible. In short, I would be a real journalist (I'm not, incidentally).

Why? Because of what I said above. I don't believe his family would be ruined, I don't believe his legacy should be tarnished beyond recognition. If anything I think that story could lead to some serious and important questions to be asked about homosexuality, and how far away we are from true toleration. It furthers our understanding of this public man, and with understanding comes empathy.

Simply put, the sooner we can break down the myth of ethical and moral perfection and replace it with the truth the better off we all will be.


Now. I know a big part of the cold hard truth is that some people want to pick the bones, some media wants page views and print sales, and some journalists aren't going to be respectful. I can only speak for myself and what I hold true.

Gary Speed wasn't perfect....and I have nothing but empathy for him, because I know what it's like to be flawed.


...Now I've not just put a bucket on my head...I've stuck it up my own arse. Fire away.
 
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I suppose I think by NOT breaking a story like that you are, in some way, admitting that the act was wrong..which I'm also rather unwilling to do.
 
In a way I think that's a beautiful thing. The modern era has gotten us closer to understanding the human experience than we've ever been. We are all being exposed for the imperfect, ****ed-up, idiosyncratic people we truly are. We see the truth.
A good, well thought out post. Particularly like the above paragraph.

I suppose I think by NOT breaking a story like that you are, in some way, admitting that the act was wrong..which I'm also rather unwilling to do.

Additionally, if people do not fear being exposed whilst doing wrong, they are almost encouraged to do it.

Not suggesting Gary did anything wrong either.
 
Who decides that? You? Me? David Cameron?
Good question. Basic human decency should decide.
Even seemingly trivial stuff like cheating on a golf scorecard is in the interest of some members of the public.
Why?
If it's not in someone's interest then putting it in the public domain shouldn't matter. This is very similar to the ID card argument. If there's nothing to hide then why object?
Maybe there is something that it's desirable to keep private but wouldn't benefit the public to know. Why is it so hard for you to understand the concept of a private life remaining private? Do you think people should submit written reports of every activity they partake in to the government and the press just in case there's something juicy in there?
If their perversions involve violence, children or drugs then yes. If they were doing them the night before a big game then yes. If they were doing them in the showers at halftime then yes.
Yes, but you're talking specifically about things that directly affect their ability to do their job and/or illegal acts, which I've already talked about. Of course they aren't entirely private matters, because they impact other people. What you've not demonstrated is the standard you've used to arrive at the conclusion that Speed's entire private life should be public property.
I care little about Eastenders. But millions do apparently the crazy fools. And if any of them were to enter into a relationship with a cast member than I expect they'd like to know if they were HIV+, had the clap or were a hepaptitis carrier.
What a bizarre argument. Surely this could be taken care of in a private conversation should that improbable eventuality arise. How would they find out such things about a non-celebrity?
The trouble with your North Korea argument is that freedom of expression is also oppressed. The very thing that exposes the sort of secrets/privacy you mention. And therein lies the conundrum, to protect privacy you have to suppress free speech. Hence super injunctions in this country. I don't like people being prevented or penalised for telling the truth, so long as the punishment for lying is harsh enought to discourage that too.
Again, no. What people do behind closed doors is their business and nobody else's. This is why we have locks on our doors and passwords on our computers and phones. Freedom of expression/speech should be used responsibly. Protection of privacy is far more important. When meeting someone new, I doubt you ask them what they did with the missus the night before.
Having some sentimental loyalty towards the dead which may tend to protect the living from either embarassment, prosecution or shunning is misplaced in my personal opinion.
It's nothing to do with sentimentality, it's basic decency. Like I've already said, if it turns out someone else had a role in his death, some information may be necessary, but even so I don't think it's important to have all the ins and outs of his private affairs.
Correct Matt...and my career certainly informs my opinion. I believe in journalism, I think it's a cornerstone of any free society. Unfortunately, at least in England, it has become a dirty word with the tabloids at fault.
Responsible journalism is very important. Giving explicit detail of an adult's personal life when it doesn't affect anyone else is not responsible journalism.
BM's post is interesting because I disagree on a very basic level. If the treasurer of state was bankrupt I wouldn't want him to be treasurer of state. His personal life and his job cannot be pulled away from each other in a neat package.
So when you say 'disagree' you actually mean 'agree' :icon_wink
 
Let me follow up with a question:

Do you think Tiger Woods was treated unfairly by the media when his personal life was exposed?

Didn't Woods launch his private life into the public domain by crashing into a tree as his hysterical wife was smashing crap out of his car?
 
The article in the Times that was wrongly attributed to the Mail on here makes a good point that until the truth comes out his family will subject to all sorts of speculation. We've already heard that he's a closet homosexual or that his son was really fathered by Duncan Ferguson, all of which could be and probably is total bollox.
 
Didn't Woods launch his private life into the public domain by crashing into a tree as his hysterical wife was smashing crap out of his car?

He did. Not to be too callous...but hasn't Speed launched his private life into the public domain too by his behavior?
 
OK. Let me try and organize my thoughts. This will meander and veer into profros type bollocks I fear.

I want to speak first of privacy. In truth, it is becoming an archaic ideal, a myth and a relic of a previous era. For better or worse I think this is simple fact.

Take, for example, you and I Matt. 10 years ago I wouldn't be a blip on your radar, you would have been ignorant to my very existence. Here we are today and with half a day you could (legally) find out almost everything about me simply from my posts on a Leicester city forum.

You could glean my name, my location, my age, my job. From there you could gather previous addresses, family tree, work history, educational background. You'd be able to tell what I looked like, you'd probably be able to hear my voice, my citizenship status, my wireless provider, phone numbers, where and when I was born, email addresses, any medical history and a surfeit of other information. And those are just the basic facts.

There have been advances in psychology that mean, based on the above information, as well as my 3000+ posts on here and anything I have shared publicly on Facebook, Twitter, and whatever else, you could begin to understand WHO I am as a person. My politics, my ethical values. Word choice and patterns can expose some things people hold true.

If I gave you 3 days, you could come to understand me better than I understand myself. Here is where the rubber meets the road. I have to be accountable for everything you find. This very post could be printed out and put on my desk and I would be accountable for it. Drunken tweets, my 10,000 emails to my fiancee on my work account, anything and everything is fair game. I have to be able to say "yep, that's me...I'm weird and a little ****ed-up".

In a way I think that's a beautiful thing. The modern era has gotten us closer to understanding the human experience than we've ever been. We are all being exposed for the imperfect, ****ed-up, idiosyncratic people we truly are. We see the truth.

Now, I don't think our moral codes have caught up with the death of privacy just yet. We still hold people to impossible standards. We expect perfection...it's an unfair target. My belief is that over the next 10-15 years we will be more forgiving and more compassionate when people make mistakes, because we will understand that we ALL make mistakes.

Now, with all of that new world mumbo-jumbo out of the way...let me breach the original question:

Would I break the story? Yes. But I'd be exceptionally careful, I would triple-check my sources, I would reach out to the family and give them all the information I had and I'd be mindful and as respectful as possible. In short, I would be a real journalist (I'm not, incidentally).

Why? Because of what I said above. I don't believe his family would be ruined, I don't believe his legacy should be tarnished beyond recognition. If anything I think that story could lead to some serious and important questions to be asked about homosexuality, and how far away we are from true toleration. It furthers our understanding of this public man, and with understanding comes empathy.

Simply put, the sooner we can break down the myth of ethical and moral perfection and replace it with the truth the better off we all will be.


Now. I know a big part of the cold hard truth is that some people want to pick the bones, some media wants page views and print sales, and some journalists aren't going to be respectful. I can only speak for myself and what I hold true.

Gary Speed wasn't perfect....and I have nothing but empathy for him, because I know what it's like to be flawed.


...Now I've not just put a bucket on my head...I've stuck it up my own arse. Fire away.

I'm too lazy to bother doing all that, you are safe.

I agree that privacy in that sense is dead, though I wish it weren't. You said you have to be accountable for emails sent through your work account; I agree that to your boss you would, but would you honestly not be upset if you went to buy a paper and the checkout girl started giggling about the intimate email you sent, or the text you sent explaining how you were going to use those feathers later?
 
Good question. Basic human decency should decide.

Yeah but whose?


Because the people he played against were cheated, the Guiness record is a sham. and anyone he would have played in the future should be aware that he was a lying cheating ****.(You realise this is a North Korea reference don't you?)

Maybe there is something that it's desirable to keep private but wouldn't benefit the public to know. Why is it so hard for you to understand the concept of a private life remaining private? Do you think people should submit written reports of every activity they partake in to the government and the press just in case there's something juicy in there?

Like what? What could be so special that needs protecting?
And the last sentence is just daft. Why should a sudden death remain private when it leads to a public inquest and police investigation as a matter of course?

Yes, but you're talking specifically about things that directly affect their ability to do their job and/or illegal acts, which I've already talked about. Of course they aren't entirely private matters, because they impact other people. What you've not demonstrated is the standard you've used to arrive at the conclusion that Speed's entire private life should be public property.

I suppose it's because I'm pretty unshockable, and that the thought of people's personal preferences in any area of their life are of such little importance that I fail to see why they should be protected by anything other than a locked door or a drawn curtain.

What a bizarre argument. Surely this could be taken care of in a private conversation should that improbable eventuality arise. How would they find out such things about a non-celebrity?

Really? Surely the power to do bad things is aided by non-disclosure. You'd like to think that would happen, but I think you assume too much good in individuals. Commendable but naive.

Again, no. What people do behind closed doors is their business and nobody else's. This is why we have locks on our doors and passwords on our computers and phones. Freedom of expression/speech should be used responsibly. Protection of privacy is far more important. When meeting someone new, I doubt you ask them what they did with the missus the night before.

So if two people have concensual sex and then the girl goes around telling all her mates that he has a tiny todger the next day, is that really a problem if it's the truth? Should he have right to recourse? I think not. Again, personal opinion.
(No reference to anyone on here of course as we're all swinging like a jailor's keys.)


It's nothing to do with sentimentality, it's basic decency. Like I've already said, if it turns out someone else had a role in his death, some information may be necessary, but even so I don't think it's important to have all the ins and outs of his private affairs.

Again, whose decency are you referring to? Everyone has different standards. Truth is the only true standard which I believe should not be compromised. Maybe it's me who is sentimental. Anyroad, the sooner someone prints the story, the sooner everyone involved can move on.

I also like tits. I don't care who knows.
 
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