Wales manager Gary Speed confirmed dead

[Miles Away]

Well, I'm fighting a bit of a losing battle BM. To be clear I'm not trolling and believe my opinion, hard to explain though it is.

I suppose, as a community, the Welsh have lost a leader under relatively unusual circumstances...without being overdramatic...perhaps it's helpful for the psyche of the nation to have some closure or clarity as to why one of their leaders chose to take his own life?

Certainly, it's not "in the public interest" in the same way as, say, reporting a pandemic...but I hope you see some small slither of a point?

 

[Biffa Bacon]

Well, I'm fighting a bit of a losing battle BM. To be clear I'm not trolling and believe my opinion, hard to explain though it is.

I suppose, as a community, the Welsh have lost a leader under relatively unusual circumstances...without being overdramatic...perhaps it's helpful for the psyche of the nation to have some closure or clarity as to why one of their leaders chose to take his own life?

Certainly, it's not "in the public interest" in the same way as, say, reporting a pandemic...but I hope you see some small slither of a point?

I'm welsh, I don't give two shits why he committed suicide, it's not necessary for any of us to know the reasons. Let the guy rip.

 

[Blue Maniac]

Well, I'm fighting a bit of a losing battle BM. To be clear I'm not trolling and believe my opinion, hard to explain though it is.

I suppose, as a community, the Welsh have lost a leader under relatively unusual circumstances...without being overdramatic...perhaps it's helpful for the psyche of the nation to have some closure or clarity as to why one of their leaders chose to take his own life?

Certainly, it's not "in the public interest" in the same way as, say, reporting a pandemic...but I hope you see some small slither of a point?

I'm struggling. Regardless of his profession or his position therein, his death in these sort of circumstances should be an entirely private matter. If it transpires that someone else had a hand in his death (by which I don't mean murder), then everything changes, but that's not (as far as we know) the case.

 

[Miles Away]

I'm welsh, I don't give two shits why he committed suicide, it's not necessary for any of us to know the reasons. Let the guy rip.

As a Welshman, you can speak for all of them?

I'm English...I love tits...thought I don't think we all do.

 

[Miles Away]

I'm struggling. Regardless of his profession or his position therein, his death in these sort of circumstances should be an entirely private matter. If it transpires that someone else had a hand in his death (by which I don't mean murder), then everything changes, but that's not (as far as we know) the case.

When you take on a public role as a representative of your nation there are certain concessions that are to be made. Speed, may he rest in peace, chose to be a face of his nation and in a leadership role.

Would you argue that if the mayor of Leicester killed himself it is an entirely private matter?

 

[bocadillo]

Would you argue that if the mayor of Leicester killed himself it is an entirely private matter?

If it had nothing to do with his role as Mayor, it would be an entirely private matter.

 

[homer]

When you take on a public role as a representative of your nation there are certain concessions that are to be made. Speed, may he rest in peace, chose to be a face of his nation and in a leadership role.

Would you argue that if the mayor of Leicester killed himself it is an entirely private matter?

The matter of him dying would, obviously, be a 'public' story - as it is with Gary Speed.

Anything that was going on in his private life, that may have caused him to take that action, has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone (other than the coroner)

It is a truly bizarre way of thinking, if you consider that it is any of your business

Anyone who genuinely thinks that it is 'in the public interest' to pick over the bones of some poor sod's life, is a complete and utter moron

No offence, like....

 

[Miles Away]

The matter of him dying would, obviously, be a 'public' story - as it is with Gary Speed.

Anything that was going on in his private life, that may have caused him to take that action, has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone (other than the coroner)

It is a truly bizarre way of thinking, if you consider that it is any of your business

Anyone who genuinely thinks that it is 'in the public interest' to pick over the bones of some poor sod's life, is a complete and utter moron

No offence, like....

None taken, I'm thick-skinned...and thick-headed..and I never said it was "my" business. In this case, it isn't.

I stand by my thoughts...people who represent the public can be expected to have their personal lives open for some investigation. I don't think it's an entirely crazy notion.

Certainly in the case of a mayor his personal life is open to scrutiny as part of his job role is to "represent" a populace.

It's a little murkier with Speed, since he wasn't an elected official.

Let me be clear again that I have nothing but sympathy for the man, and don't consider myself some kind of lecherous arse. I have nothing but empathy for him and his family.

My point, simply, is when you represent the public your personal choices stand to be scrutinized. Perhaps Speed isn't the best example, but I stand by that belief.

I'll stop arguing...if you think me a sadist so be it.

 

[Biffa Bacon]

As a Welshman, you can speak for all of them?

I'm English...I love tits...thought I don't think we all do.

That's why I said I'm Welsh and don't give 2 shits rather than I'm Welsh and none of us give 2 shits, I do think that anyone showing the perverse level of interest you are is being moronic, that again is my opinion and I don't represent any larger group.

 

[RHYDAL]

I would suggest that transparency in all matters is in the public interest.
Secrecy is the first step on the road to North Korea.

 

[The Major]

If the reason for his suicide comes out I wonder if all the holier than thou types on here will refrain from commenting about it?

 

[Richie]

Some people are obviously letting their distaste of the tabloids sway their feelings. They think by ganging up they can quieten down the voices who would like to know the full ins and outs, but as it happens their attempts at bullying and intimidation haven't worked.

Must be awful to have a opinion when the oh so righteous have deemed you're not allowed to have it.

 

[Blue Maniac]

Three of my favourite posters and one thus far half-decent new member - and I think I disagree with all of them. One by one then:

I stand by my thoughts...people who represent the public can be expected to have their personal lives open for some investigation. I don't think it's an entirely crazy notion.

It is. It's insane. Just because of his job, you think his private life should be public property? Madness. Absolute lunacy.

My point, simply, is when you represent the public your personal choices stand to be scrutinized.

Again, only within the boundaries of your actual job or in relation to your public persona. A football manager's personal life should never be public property unless he's doing something particularly hypocritical, eg snorting coke while involved in an anti-drug campaign.

I would suggest that transparency in all matters is in the public interest.

Only if it's important for us to know. Would you like to know the sexual perversions of all the Cardiff squad? Would you like a full medical report on all the actors in Eastenders? No. It doesn't matter. None of it does.

Secrecy is the first step on the road to North Korea.

You're confusing secrecy with privacy. I don't think Gary Speed's private life can be correctly compared to North Korea's nuclear ambitions. Firstly, Gary Speed wasn't a country. Secondly, whatever he got up to in his private life presumably didn't pose an immediate threat to the entire western hemisphere. In fact, since you mention them, invasion of privacy sounds very North Korean.

If the reason for his suicide comes out I wonder if all the holier than thou types on here will refrain from commenting about it?

That depends what it is.

Some people are obviously letting their distaste of the tabloids sway their feelings. They think by ganging up they can quieten down the voices who would like to know the full ins and outs, but as it happens their attempts at bullying and intimidation haven't worked.

Nobody's tried to bully or intimidate anyone. Why do you want to know the full ins and outs? What have the tabloids got to do with it?

Must be awful to have a opinion when the oh so righteous have deemed you're not allowed to have it.

Nobody's trying to ban you from having an opinion. Opinions are interesting.

 

[Richie]

I'd like to know the full s.p. purely because I cannot fathom why a man who seemingly had it all would want to top himself, and for saying this earlier in the thread I had 2 or 3 ganging up in an attempt at forcing me to change my mind.

Opinion is all it is. People don't have to agree, but to gang up as they did just because their opinion differed to mine was a bit O.T.T.

 

[Macky]

I'd like to know the full s.p. purely because I cannot fathom why a man who seemingly had it all would want to top himself, and for saying this earlier in the thread I had 2 or 3 ganging up in an attempt at forcing me to change my mind.

Opinion is all it is. People don't have to agree, but to gang up as they did just because their opinion differed to mine was a bit O.T.T.

How exactly did this 'ganging up' manifest? I'm ****ed if I can see any evidence of it.

 

[Cate Fox]

How exactly did this 'ganging up' manifest? I'm ****ed if I can see any evidence of it.

I think it was when he was told his post was a load of total bollocks :icon_lol:

 

[Matt_B]

None taken, I'm thick-skinned...and thick-headed..and I never said it was "my" business. In this case, it isn't.

I stand by my thoughts...people who represent the public can be expected to have their personal lives open for some investigation. I don't think it's an entirely crazy notion.

Certainly in the case of a mayor his personal life is open to scrutiny as part of his job role is to "represent" a populace.

It's a little murkier with Speed, since he wasn't an elected official.

Let me be clear again that I have nothing but sympathy for the man, and don't consider myself some kind of lecherous arse. I have nothing but empathy for him and his family.

My point, simply, is when you represent the public your personal choices stand to be scrutinized. Perhaps Speed isn't the best example, but I stand by that belief.

I'll stop arguing...if you think me a sadist so be it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you a journalist, or work in the media in some way, and so are slightly biased?

 

[RHYDAL]

Only if it's important for us to know.

Who decides that? You? Me? David Cameron? Even seemingly trivial stuff like cheating on a golf scorecard is in the interest of some members of the public. If it's not in someone's interest then putting it in the public domain shouldn't matter. This is very similar to the ID card argument. If there's nothing to hide then why object?

Would you like to know the sexual perversions of all the Cardiff squad? Would you like a full medical report on all the actors in Eastenders? No. It doesn't matter. None of it does.

If their perversions involve violence, children or drugs then yes. If they were doing them the night before a big game then yes. If they were doing them in the showers at halftime then yes. I care little about Eastenders. But millions do apparently the crazy fools. And if any of them were to enter into a relationship with a cast member than I expect they'd like to know if they were HIV+, had the clap or were a hepaptitis carrier.

You're confusing secrecy with privacy. I don't think Gary Speed's private life can be correctly compared to North Korea's nuclear ambitions. Firstly, Gary Speed wasn't a country. Secondly, whatever he got up to in his private life presumably didn't pose an immediate threat to the entire western hemisphere. In fact, since you mention them, invasion of privacy sounds very North Korean.

The trouble with your North Korea argument is that freedom of expression is also oppressed. The very thing that exposes the sort of secrets/privacy you mention. And therein lies the conundrum, to protect privacy you have to suppress free speech. Hence super injunctions in this country. I don't like people being prevented or penalised for telling the truth, so long as the punishment for lying is harsh enought to discourage that too.
Having some sentimental loyalty towards the dead which may tend to protect the living from either embarassment, prosecution or shunning is misplaced in my personal opinion.

 

[Miles Away]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you a journalist, or work in the media in some way, and so are slightly biased?

Correct Matt...and my career certainly informs my opinion. I believe in journalism, I think it's a cornerstone of any free society. Unfortunately, at least in England, it has become a dirty word with the tabloids at fault.

BM's post is interesting because I disagree on a very basic level. If the treasurer of state was bankrupt I wouldn't want him to be treasurer of state. His personal life and his job cannot be pulled away from each other in a neat package.

I'm going around in circles here so I'll stop.

To Biffa though. I don't have a morbid interest, the conversation isn't about what happened to speed...it's about whether the public should know what happened.

I'm many shitty things, moronic is not one of them.

 

[Matt_B]

OK a question then. If it turns out that he killed himself because he was in a homosexual relationship that his wife had previously been unaware of, what would be the benefit to the public in finding out? It would destroy her and his living family and ruin any reputation he has so it had better benefit the public in a very large way to be worth it.