A Talking Point

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Our club needs.
1. a better manager
2. better players
3. a more generous board
4. someone in charge of the board who knows what they are doing
5. better food on sale

EVERY club needs.
1. a better manager
2. better players
3. a more generous board
4. someone in charge of the board who knows what they are doing
5. better food on sale

They are just things fans say at every club, even Mourinho wants better players and Abramovich to cough up more cash.

The point is that if you have none of the above then you have to support what you have and let them develop into the better players, let the manager develop into the better manager and then as results improve, the rest follows.

Even the food.

I can guarentee that in 2/3 years some people will moan that MM is a multi millionaire and so why can't we get player X instead of team Y.

Tightwad.
 
EVERY club needs.
1. a better manager
2. better players
3. a more generous board
4. someone in charge of the board who knows what they are doing
5. better food on sale

They are just things fans say at every club, even Mourinho wants better players and Abramovich to cough up more cash.

The point is that if you have none of the above then you have to support what you have and let them develop into the better players, let the manager develop into the better manager and then as results improve, the rest follows.

Even the food.

I can guarentee that in 2/3 years some people will moan that MM is a multi millionaire and so why can't we get player X instead of team Y.

Tightwad.

but we cannot even get players good enough for this division. You didnt go to Southampton then....****in hell
 
EVERY club needs.
1. a better manager
2. better players
3. a more generous board
4. someone in charge of the board who knows what they are doing
5. better food on sale

They are just things fans say at every club, even Mourinho wants better players and Abramovich to cough up more cash.

The point is that if you have none of the above then you have to support what you have and let them develop into the better players, let the manager develop into the better manager and then as results improve, the rest follows.

Even the food.

I can guarentee that in 2/3 years some people will moan that MM is a multi millionaire and so why can't we get player X instead of team Y.

Tightwad
.

Milan Out!!! Let's start the chant now!
 
6. something close to proper beer available


dead right Dour. When we are subjected to watching the recent shit thats being dished up you cannot even escape to the concourse and comfort yourself with a good burger and a pint...... even thats bad
 
but we cannot even get players good enough for this division. You didnt go to Southampton then....****in hell

You can't isolate one or two performances and say they aren't good enough.

If you want I'll say that we beat Southampton at home and so therefore we are good enough for this league.

Indeed, we would be in the bottom 3 if we weren't good enough.
 
I can guarentee that in 2/3 years some people will moan that MM is a multi millionaire and so why can't we get player X instead of team Y.


not much of a guarantee, by saying "some" people. Almost certain to happen in a 20K crowd. I would say this would happen within a week of him taking over ( if he does take over)
 
not much of a guarantee, by saying "some" people. Almost certain to happen in a 20K crowd. I would say this would happen within a week of him taking over ( if he does take over)

And that is a defence!!!!!

Thats more of an indictment of the stupidty of the fans than anything I've put, cheers.
 
You can't isolate one or two performances and say they aren't good enough
I haven't seen a decent performance all season. Even when we had a good spell I was on record plenty of times saying how crap we were playing. This aint no 1 or 2 game "blip" Dunc, we are shite and it needs sorting
 
I haven't seen a decent performance all season. Even when we had a good spell I was on record plenty of times saying how crap we were playing. This aint no 1 or 2 game "blip" Dunc, we are shite and it needs sorting

But the players are good enough for this division otherwise we wouldn't be in it or we would be in the relegation places.

I thought we were good against Villa, Leeds away and Barnsley at home. In fact I thought we were good against Hull we just didn't score one of 20 chances we created.

We've been average in a lot of others and poor in others.
 
You can't isolate one or two performances and say they aren't good enough.

If you want I'll say that we beat Southampton at home and so therefore we are good enough for this league.

Indeed, we would be in the bottom 3 if we weren't good enough.

its more than one or two performances, you obviously dont go very often do you Dunc
 
I completely agree with you and have tried to make similar points before.

It's not only impatience, but everybody wanting to be right and the first to say it. I often see people who seem almost proud of mentioning the fact that they didn't think RK was up to the job even when he was employed and seem to revel in the fact that they might now be proven right.

In the summer I don't think there were too many people who thought we should've got rid of Stearman at all, at practically any cost, and now there are people saying we should get rid of him if we can get £500,000 for him, after just a couple of dodgy months. As you say, people just need to have more patience and let these players develop. Stearman is 19 and has already made 65 first team appearances for the club, and has probably played well in most of them. He might be going through a bad patch lately, but I don't think there has ever been a player who has has no bad run of form in their career. Stearman still has great potential, and can be a very good player for us if the boo boys don't force him out.
Fryatt as well, people are getting on his case, saying how crap he is and we should get rid, and yet in August people thought he and Hume (mainly Fryatt though) were capable of scoring enough goals this season to get us promoted. For me, Fryatt's poor form is hugely due to the lack of a reserves team for him to get fit when he came back from injury.
I even heard mentioned somewhere that some of our supporters were getting on Weso's back during the Sunderland game! That is absolutely insane. The boy is 19 years old and has suffered 2 broken legs, and again like Fryatt hasn't really been able to get match fit due to the lack of reserves.


If we can keep the core of this team together, we have a team that can be good within a few years and can really grow together.
At the start of the season people said we shouldn't sell the likes of Hume, Fryatt, Stearman, McCarthy, Kisnorbo, Wesolowski no matter what, but it seems now people are willing to get rid of all of everyone because we've had a bad few months. This team is doing badly, and does definetely need to get better, but that doesn't mean we should boot out a load of players who have the potential to be very good for us and start all over again.

I think you're definetely right, our constant chopping and changing of players/managers is the reason we're doing badly and have at best been incosintent over the last few years. They need stability, time to get used to the setup and each other.


But, it is the same at a lot of clubs and does just seem to be the shape of the game these days which is a shame. And even though it is good for the team if it can stay together for a long while with the manager as well, you have to make sure you get the right people to begin with. And how long can you afford to give a manager doing badly before giving him the boot? I think we are much too hasty with decisions. People wanted Levein and now Kelly out less than a year after their appointments. Micky Adams was forced out after 2 months in this league, even though we were in the top half (I think, 8th if I remember rightly?) when he left. But, with getting to the Premiership being worth £40m now, you're not going to get much patience when a club is seen to be underacheiving. Really, when you look at it I think it is more in the bottom half of the Premiership and in this league where these rash decisions and impatience is more common.

Anyway, I'm rambling and probably that will be picked apart and I have no idea what I'm talking about.
As true as it might be that fans should give players/managers more time, you're never going to convince those that think differently that you're right.
 
In the summer I don't think there were too many people who thought we should've got rid of Stearman at all,
Don't include me in that list, if you look through the threads I was shocked when we didn't let him go.
 
i think to some extent our current players are being held responsible for the last 5/6 years performances, which is unfair i agree.

I think keep loosing will hurt the confidence and ultimately the development of young players, more than fan frustration though.

we need more experience, both on and off the field to give the young players a chance.
 
I completely agree with you and have tried to make similar points before.

It's not only impatience, but everybody wanting to be right and the first to say it. I often see people who seem almost proud of mentioning the fact that they didn't think RK was up to the job even when he was employed and seem to revel in the fact that they might now be proven right.

In the summer I don't think there were too many people who thought we should've got rid of Stearman at all, at practically any cost, and now there are people saying we should get rid of him if we can get £500,000 for him, after just a couple of dodgy months. As you say, people just need to have more patience and let these players develop. Stearman is 19 and has already made 65 first team appearances for the club, and has probably played well in most of them. He might be going through a bad patch lately, but I don't think there has ever been a player who has has no bad run of form in their career. Stearman still has great potential, and can be a very good player for us if the boo boys don't force him out.
Fryatt as well, people are getting on his case, saying how crap he is and we should get rid, and yet in August people thought he and Hume (mainly Fryatt though) were capable of scoring enough goals this season to get us promoted. For me, Fryatt's poor form is hugely due to the lack of a reserves team for him to get fit when he came back from injury.
I even heard mentioned somewhere that some of our supporters were getting on Weso's back during the Sunderland game! That is absolutely insane. The boy is 19 years old and has suffered 2 broken legs, and again like Fryatt hasn't really been able to get match fit due to the lack of reserves.


If we can keep the core of this team together, we have a team that can be good within a few years and can really grow together.
At the start of the season people said we shouldn't sell the likes of Hume, Fryatt, Stearman, McCarthy, Kisnorbo, Wesolowski no matter what, but it seems now people are willing to get rid of all of everyone because we've had a bad few months. This team is doing badly, and does definetely need to get better, but that doesn't mean we should boot out a load of players who have the potential to be very good for us and start all over again.

I think you're definetely right, our constant chopping and changing of players/managers is the reason we're doing badly and have at best been incosintent over the last few years. They need stability, time to get used to the setup and each other.


But, it is the same at a lot of clubs and does just seem to be the shape of the game these days which is a shame. And even though it is good for the team if it can stay together for a long while with the manager as well, you have to make sure you get the right people to begin with. And how long can you afford to give a manager doing badly before giving him the boot? I think we are much too hasty with decisions. People wanted Levein and now Kelly out less than a year after their appointments. Micky Adams was forced out after 2 months in this league, even though we were in the top half (I think, 8th if I remember rightly?) when he left. But, with getting to the Premiership being worth £40m now, you're not going to get much patience when a club is seen to be underacheiving. Really, when you look at it I think it is more in the bottom half of the Premiership and in this league where these rash decisions and impatience is more common.

Anyway, I'm rambling and probably that will be picked apart and I have no idea what I'm talking about.
As true as it might be that fans should give players/managers more time, you're never going to convince those that think differently that you're right.

I agree with you totally about the players.

On the managers: Adams himself clearly recognised that he had reached the end of the road at Leicester; Levein never adjusted to the more competitive nature of English football...and as for Kelly - his appointment was a cop out and I wouldn't think there are many who would be too optimistic about him being the right manager to achieve much success. As you suggest, before you stick with the right manager - you have to make the right appointment. And we haven't.
 
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