Am I on a different planet?

[Yorkshire Vixen]

i agree glyn always seems like a waste on money to employ someone in that capacity

 

[Redditch Fox]

, I believe Craig would make an exceptional Director of Football and he is an asset to the club that we can ill afford to lose

I am not sure that taking us to where we are to-day indicates that he is an asset.

In the real world he is currently in deficit.

He may prove to be an asset.....one day, however, I don't think too many objective outsiders would be currently buying too many shares in Craig Levein.

 

[glyn]

I am not sure that taking us to where we are to-day indicates that he is an asset.

In the real world he is currently in deficit.

He may prove to be an asset.....one day, however, I don't think too many objective outsiders would be currently buying too many shares in Craig Levein.

Absolutely. I'm not in the 'Levein out' brigade, but if he did go I wouldn't be gutted. I wouldn't be thinking that we'd lost the next Bill Shankly.

 

[highland fox]

Absolutely. I'm not in the 'Levein out' brigade, but if he did go I wouldn't be gutted. I wouldn't be thinking that we'd lost the next Bill Shankly.

If the word is right,in his replacement we may well have a Roger Hunt..

 

[Dickovforengland!]

but if he did go I wouldn't be gutted

I would be. The next manager would probably start from scratch and the last year would have been a waste. If the next guy doesn't get us in the top 6 in a year he'd be out too. Can't see any benefit in getting rid of Levein.

 

[glyn]

I would be. The next manager would probably start from scratch and the last year would have been a waste. If the next guy doesn't get us in the top 6 in a year he'd be out too. Can't see any benefit in getting rid of Levein.

that's not what I said. I didn't say I wanted Levein out, in fact I think he should stay. I completely agree with what you say above.

But all I'm saying is - if in the event that we lost the next 5 games and he was sacked - that he's no Bill Shankly, Alex Ferguson or Martin O'Neill and therefore it's not the end of the world.

 

[webmaster]

But all I'm saying is - if in the event that we lost the next 5 games and he was sacked - that he's no Bill Shankly, Alex Ferguson or Martin O'Neill and therefore it's not the end of the world.

Maybe he IS an Alex Ferguson. It took years for Fergie to win anything with Man U, and some of the fans wanted him out. But what he did was get rid of the old players, and rebuild the club from the bottom. Not something that can be done quickly, but obviously it paid off. I'm not saying that we can go on to win the league, Chamions league etc, I'm just trying to illustrate that it can take a long time to turn a club around, and I think CL is going about it the right way.


From Soccernet:

Ferguson's intention to leave an Old Trafford legacy got of to a slow start as his attempts to rescue United from the troubled state in which Ron Atkinson had left the club faltered.

Ferguson initially appeared to have left his success in Scotland and after three years in the job, despite finishing second behind Liverpool in 1988, chants of 'Fergie out' could be heard emanating from the Old Trafford terraces.

But behind the scenes Ferguson was rebuilding the club in minute detail. He had revamped the youth system, a move that would pay huge dividends a few years down the line, and he had stamped out the drinking culture at Old Trafford by shipping out many of the crowd's favourites.

The loss of these boozy players had a detrimental effect on the pitch and in January 1990, with United languishing at the wrong end of the table after losing 5-1 to arch-rivals Manchester City (David Oldfield scored a couple!), Fergie's job was on the line as United went into a Third Round FA Cup tie against N*tt*ngh*m F*r*st.

If United lost it would mean the end for Ferguson, although chairman Martin Edwards has always denied it, but with things looking bleak for the Scot and time ticking away Mark Robins came off the substitute's bench to give United a narrow 1-0 win and save Fergie's skin.

 

[Dickovforengland!]

that's not what I said. I didn't say I wanted Levein out, in fact I think he should stay. I completely agree with what you say above.

But all I'm saying is - if in the event that we lost the next 5 games and he was sacked - that he's no Bill Shankly, Alex Ferguson or Martin O'Neill and therefore it's not the end of the world.

Sorry thought you said you wouldn't be gutted if he went. I would be. Thats it.

 

[Willlow]

But all I'm saying is - if in the event that we lost the next 5 games and he was sacked - that he's no Bill Shankly, Alex Ferguson or Martin O'Neill and therefore it's not the end of the world.

I think you will find that both these manager did not start well at Man u and city. Im sure if you had asked manure fans about Fergusson when he first started you would have been given the same reply as as what most people are saying on here! However, Manure stuck with him and he became a legend for them! Surely a reason to give CL some time! :icon_wink

Also we saw how clever City fans are when they booed O'neil after ten games or so, something that he never forgot and no doubt contributed to him leaving! Just give CL time to show us his worth and build a team that can lead us back in the right direction!

 

[Redditch Fox]

Maybe he IS an Alex Ferguson. It took years for Fergie to win anything with Man U, and some of the fans wanted him out. But what he did was get rid of the old players, and rebuild the club from the bottom. Not something that can be done quickly, but obviously it paid off. I'm not saying that we can go on to win the league, Chamions league etc, I'm just trying to illustrate that it can take a long time to turn a club around, and I think CL is going about it the right way.

He may - or may not - be going about it the right way.

I think practically everyone agreed that he was right to clear out the rabble he inherited... in fact I thought he should have gone further, e.g. retaining Jason Wilcox looked and has proven to be unnecessary. (NB his loan period further extended refutes any ideas that he is going to come back rejuvenated - as i was advised some weeks ago on this forum).

However, just because Levein has todate been unsuccessful in terms of results and Alex Ferguson was initially unsuccessful (although I don't recall that he had Man U running 19th in the second tier) is a matter of happenstance. To take your logic to its ultimate conclusion we'd have every crap manager shouting " Look, everything's OK - I know I've been unsuccessful but so was Sir Alex".

I honestly don't know whether Levein will ever turn things round. Perhaps he will, but so far I don't see much evidence that he is a particularly good operator.

 

[glyn]

Fair points about Fergie's start at Man U. MON is a little different since that was only a 10 game run.

CL may turn out to be a Ferguson, and I hope he does and believe he has potential to do well for us given some time. But as Redditch says the same could be said about anybody. All I'm saying is if he left I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I'd be annoyed that the decision had been made, but not devestated.

 

[glyn]

Also we saw how clever City fans are when they booed O'neil after ten games or so, something that he never forgot and no doubt contributed to him leaving!

I think that's a bit of a myth. He'd been at a top-half Premiership club for 5 years, had to sell his star striker for 11 million proving that we were still a selling club, and was offered the Celtic job of his dreams. I think that's what contributed to him leaving.

 

[webmaster]

had to sell his star striker for 11 million proving that we were still a selling club

He didn't have to sell Heskey, Heskey wanted to go to Liverpool - if he didn't go when he did he'd have left for nothing a year laer.

 

[glyn]

He didn't have to sell Heskey, Heskey wanted to go to Liverpool - if he didn't go when he did he'd have left for nothing a year laer.

Fair enough, but if Heskey didn't want to stay then it still proved to MON he couldn't take us any further. Either way, the Sheff Utd game from 5 years previous didn't come into the equation on this one. Perhaps if he'd gone to Leeds 2 years before I may have agreed that it had more of an impact, but not to the Celtic move. His dad had told him to walk there if he was offered that job after all :icon_wink

 

[glyn]

He didn't have to sell Heskey, Heskey wanted to go to Liverpool - if he didn't go when he did he'd have left for nothing a year laer.

by the way, 11 million - what a cracking bit of business. Shame it was chucked down the pan

 

[Willlow]

Fair enough, but if Heskey didn't want to stay then it still proved to MON he couldn't take us any further. Either way, the Sheff Utd game from 5 years previous didn't come into the equation on this one. Perhaps if he'd gone to Leeds 2 years before I may have agreed that it had more of an impact, but not to the Celtic move. His dad had told him to walk there if he was offered that job after all :icon_wink

The fact that whenever he was interviewed about being at Leicester he would mention it, Im not saying thats why he left but i would guess it took him a step closer the door!

 

[PFKAKTF FOX]

The fact that whenever he was interviewed about being at Leicester he would mention it, Im not saying thats why he left but i would guess it took him a step closer the door!

Bollox, otherwise he would never have stayed as long as he did, he bought this up as a point of reference about how hasty the fans had been in judging him so early on in his career as manager with us, and that they should appreciate what he had built.

And before anybody says anything, everytime it is suggested that Levein is under pressure why does everybody refer back to MON or Alex Ferguson as examples, O'Neill turned this club around after 6 months, Levein has bought in better players but has managed to succeed in taking us to 19th place after over a year.

Regarding Levein as a Director of Football, he has all the necessary attributes, he encourages younger players, he is a strong advocator of youth team players coming through the club, he is a decent judge of players on the whole and he has a long term plan, all in all very good credentials. What he hasnt proved as yet is that he has the tactically ability to progress this potential he has built into positive results, but he has proved to be an asset, after all he has built a decent squad, whilst vastly reducing the budget, but he seems to struggle when trying to mould this collective into a team.

 

[Chrysalis]

Maybe he IS an Alex Ferguson. It took years for Fergie to win anything with Man U, and some of the fans wanted him out. But what he did was get rid of the old players, and rebuild the club from the bottom. Not something that can be done quickly, but obviously it paid off. I'm not saying that we can go on to win the league, Chamions league etc, I'm just trying to illustrate that it can take a long time to turn a club around, and I think CL is going about it the right way.


From Soccernet:

Ferguson's intention to leave an Old Trafford legacy got of to a slow start as his attempts to rescue United from the troubled state in which Ron Atkinson had left the club faltered.

Ferguson initially appeared to have left his success in Scotland and after three years in the job, despite finishing second behind Liverpool in 1988, chants of 'Fergie out' could be heard emanating from the Old Trafford terraces.

But behind the scenes Ferguson was rebuilding the club in minute detail. He had revamped the youth system, a move that would pay huge dividends a few years down the line, and he had stamped out the drinking culture at Old Trafford by shipping out many of the crowd's favourites.

The loss of these boozy players had a detrimental effect on the pitch and in January 1990, with United languishing at the wrong end of the table after losing 5-1 to arch-rivals Manchester City (David Oldfield scored a couple!), Fergie's job was on the line as United went into a Third Round FA Cup tie against N*tt*ngh*m F*r*st.

If United lost it would mean the end for Ferguson, although chairman Martin Edwards has always denied it, but with things looking bleak for the Scot and time ticking away Mark Robins came off the substitute's bench to give United a narrow 1-0 win and save Fergie's skin.

Was fergie ever in the bottom 6 during dec and having a 0.33 per game points average?

I think there is never going to be an agreement here, one side of the coin is a set of people who think craig should stay no matter what the cost even if its relegation. The other side of the coin people want to avoid relegation and think craig has players who are under achieving.

It can be argued if looking at peter taylor's first season looking at the season as a whole it wasnt relegation form but looking at the latter part of it, it was. The board at the time used that and the start of the season after to sack him.

 

[PFKAKTF FOX]

Was fergie ever in the bottom 6 during dec and having a 0.33 per game points average?

I think there is never going to be an agreement here, one side of the coin is a set of people who think craig should stay no matter what the cost even if its relegation. The other side of the coin people want to avoid relegation and think craig has players who are under achieving.

It can be argued if looking at peter taylor's first season looking at the season as a whole it wasnt relegation form but looking at the latter part of it, it was. The board at the time used that and the start of the season after to sack him.

Totally agree, the club are in a no win situation, sack Levein and many of the fans will say the club have been too hasty, despite our appalling record. Keep him on and we get relegated, they will be accused of bottling out of a major decision, or leaving it too late. Granted Levein wasn't afforded the luxuries or resources of Taylor, but he still has had a top 5 budget to work with, and if we were honest had Taylor's reign not been so unforgettably catostrophic, would Levein be still afforded such paitence, in a word NO.

Last season, Adams built a squad that he, the media and many of our supporters believed would be capable of finishing in the top 2, as it turned out we were misguided and were left with a squad full of has beens, despite the aftermath of administration, the weight of expectation fell heavily on Micky's shoulders and he left.

Levein this season, despite having to rebuild the squad, a process he started in earnest last january, was still afforded the luxury of operating with a budget in the TOP 5 of the division, he was able to go out and sign a number of quality players, by his own admission he was to operate with a small squad containing quality opposed to quantity. The target was a measurable improvement on last seasons 15th place finish.

As we approach the festive period and exactly halfway through the domestic campaign we lie in 19th place with a miserly 5 victories, and at present despite numerous chopping and changing, cannot find the right blend of players and tactics to bring about this required improvement. Levein has by his own targets under performed, much in the same way Adams did last season, granted we have younger players and a more entertaining brand of football, but without results it is immaterial. I appluad and respect the fans who support Levein 100%, but bearing in mind the current position we lie in, the resources he has had at his disposal and his record as manager, surely means that we have the right to discuss and debate whether he is the right man for the job.

 

[step]

Went to watch my local team today. Nothing unsual there as I've been seeing them for over 30 years

Thought they played well; good passing & movement, created loads of chances, but not a great deal of luck in front goal.

Then on the way I tune in to Radio Leicester and discovered that all the TXTrs and the one live caller had been to a completely different game. Apparently, the team they saw was atrocious, diabolical and dead-certs for relegation.

I think half-wit in front of me summed up the myopic view of certain "supporters" when he labelled this team a disgrace for not having enough shots on goal.

Please, Please, Please can we get behind this team instead of jamming the local radio station and messageboards with complete and utter negative garbage!

Tou are dead right and as a younger member you probably have not experianced a stadium full of city fans that are have actualy got behind the team and you probably never will, ( I think those days are gone) which is a pitty. let me tell you it is brilliant, when it dont matter it we win or loose and the fans are behind the team it is the best experiance you can have at city.
If we are losing, its like the city fans are saying, ' so what we are city, we are bigger than that, we may be lossing, but lossing to shite means nothing we are still city. loossing a match dont make us lossers, and when we were winning it was extatic.

I just wish we could fill the stadium with fans like you instead of the stort sighted shallow crowd that dont realy care about city.
Keep it up.