Brexit

[Fox Fan]

As you say, Brexit is a closed chapter to most voters. I'm not sure how much a Prime Minister could have done about that but I'm pretty sure that there's nothing a Leader of the Opposition could have done.

He was shadow Brexit secretary. In the book Left Out there quite some detail that Corbyn wanted to back May's Chequers Brexit deal - but Starmer refused to (ostensibly because he thought they could force a second referendum).

In reality that Chequers deal would have kept us in the Customs union, closer to the Norway model and commonly referred to as a soft Brexit and quite a distance from the harder Brexit we have now.

Had Labour of backed it, that deal would have passed quite easily in the Commons.

 

[FOX Franks]

Can't see Boris flannelling his way out of the Gray report, he's fatally wounded

I'd prefer him to stay in and get a kicking in 2024, but I think they may let him linger until the local elections in May and the cost of living tsunami kicks in in April and let him go then.... and give it the old "oh that wasn't us, it was Boris" and rebrand under Sunak or even...a moderate like Hunt

Hopefully the electorate will start to blame Boris for a crappy Brexit and a narrative of "get Brexit fixed" would work for Labour and the Lib Dems and they can begin to think about rejoining (for starters) the Customs' Union, but I fear it's Starmer's policy to just look fairly competent and not look like Boris without any clear economic vision that addresses the elephant in the room

Watching his demise has been fun....if only there had been clues that the twice-sacked-for-lying "£350m a week for the NHS" shyster could have been identified as a liar earlier...

He's swerved the Gray report by getting Cressida to start a 12 month investigation. Slippery wanker.

Madness.

 

[Darth Vodka]

He's swerved the Gray report by getting Cressida to start a 12 month investigation. Slippery wanker.

Madness.

Slippery wanker indeed...I think he's hoping he send troops to Ukraine and it'll be like the Falklands

 

[Hector]

Slippery wanker indeed...I think he's hoping he send troops to Ukraine and it'll be like the Falklands

Exactly. He almost sounded like a grown-up in the debate they have just had in the Commons on Ukraine, and of course he had cross party support. I suspect Starmer will go gently in PMQ tomorrow, for fear of seeming trivial.

 

[FOX Franks]

Exactly. He almost sounded like a grown-up in the debate they have just had in the Commons on Ukraine, and of course he had cross party support. I suspect Starmer will go gently in PMQ tomorrow, for fear of seeming trivial.

Starmer is hoarding his missiles.
He's rattled Johnson and after taking Wakeford he knew that would rally them behind Boris.

If I were him I'd be noting everything for the next GE

 

[parafox]

He was shadow Brexit secretary. In the book Left Out there quite some detail that Corbyn wanted to back May's Chequers Brexit deal - but Starmer refused to (ostensibly because he thought they could force a second referendum).

Starmer could piss on Corbyn's mum's grave and Jezza would just offer to hold his cock for him

 

[Darth Vodka]

He was shadow Brexit secretary. In the book Left Out there quite some detail that Corbyn wanted to back May's Chequers Brexit deal - but Starmer refused to (ostensibly because he thought they could force a second referendum).

In reality that Chequers deal would have kept us in the Customs union, closer to the Norway model and commonly referred to as a soft Brexit and quite a distance from the harder Brexit we have now.

Had Labour of backed it, that deal would have passed quite easily in the Commons.

I think Corbyn and to a certain extent Starmer can shoulder some of the blame for not delivering a better Brexit… but that’s like saying the solicitors are to blame for the divorce… it was the Tories who gave the referendum, the Tories who backed it with Ukip and the dumb as **** electorate aided by the Sun, Mail , Express in the back pockets of foreign billionaires who thought it a good idea

 

[bocadillo]

I think Corbyn and to a certain extent Starmer can shoulder some of the blame for not delivering a better Brexit… but that’s like saying the solicitors are to blame for the divorce… it was the Tories who gave the referendum, the Tories who backed it with Ukip and the dumb as **** electorate aided by the Sun, Mail , Express in the back pockets of foreign billionaires who thought it a good idea

What effect do you think that the utterances of those, like yourself, who regard themselves as bright and well informed had on the voting of those who you suggest are "dumb as ****"?

 

[Fox Fan]

I think Corbyn and to a certain extent Starmer can shoulder some of the blame for not delivering a better Brexit… but that’s like saying the solicitors are to blame for the divorce… it was the Tories who gave the referendum, the Tories who backed it with Ukip and the dumb as **** electorate aided by the Sun, Mail , Express in the back pockets of foreign billionaires who thought it a good idea

Would you concede that Corbyn's complete failure to campaign for the Remain vote had any impact?

Major Labour figures at the time thought it did.

Labour 'Remain' Campaigners Attack Jeremy Corbyn

Senior figures claim the Labour leader undermined their campaign efforts.

www.newsweek.com

And as much as we rightly attack Boris Johnson for doing stupid things, JC was off on holiday during the referendum campaign.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-under-fire-labour-7928193

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Just so it doesn't get lost - there is a lot of blame all round. Labour hold a large amount of blame for:

• Installing a terrible candidate and long time EU agnostic (at best) as leader.
• Allowing that leader to then not campaign for remain and according to some reports, work against the official campaign.
• Blocking a soft Brexit several times to try and force Teresa May from office.
• Eventually backing the hard Brexit we now have because voters had got bored of the issue and wanted to move on.

 

[FOX Franks]

I think Corbyn and to a certain extent Starmer can shoulder some of the blame for not delivering a better Brexit… but that’s like saying the solicitors are to blame for the divorce… it was the Tories who gave the referendum, the Tories who backed it with Ukip and the dumb as **** electorate aided by the Sun, Mail , Express in the back pockets of foreign billionaires who thought it a good idea

As Boc says, this post eloquently sums up why the left keep losing.
You can have all the good ideas in the world but if you consider anyone who holds different opinions to be 'dumb as ****', they oddly won't vote for you.

 

[parafox]

Major Labour figures at the time thought it did

"Major Labour figures" being code for people who are really no different from Tories who spent five years trying to openly undermine him at every turn?

 

[Payne74]

If I was sitting on the fence on a vote and somebody accused me of being "Dumb as ****" I would instantly vote the opposite way purely to spite them

 

[Payne74]

Slippery wanker indeed...I think he's hoping he send troops to Ukraine and it'll be like the Falklands

Except this time we aren't going to war against some tin pot nation that has more reverse gears than forwards when it comes to fighting, the Russians would annihilate us, and the EU would get wipped out when it spent 20 months bickering among themselves, the Russians won't **** about. This is far more concerning than Brexit

 

[Fox Fan]

"Major Labour figures" being code for people who are really no different from Tories who spent five years trying to openly undermine him at every turn?

Alan Johnson, the former postman, Marxist and union official?

Sounds like a Tory to me....

 

[M17TT C]

If I was sitting on the fence on a vote and somebody accused me of being "Dumb as ****" I would instantly vote the opposite way purely to spite them

That just proves the dumb statement to be true though.

If anyone voted one way because someone voting the other way (not a political leader or PM etc but just a random voter!?!) called them a name, then dumb is being quite kind really.

And before anyone accuses me of being a lefty etc, Brexit could have been a lot better but anyone backing this bunch of shysters on what was effectively a blank cheque, is dumb.

 

[Darth Vodka]

If I was sitting on the fence on a vote and somebody accused me of being "Dumb as ****" I would instantly vote the opposite way purely to spite them

thus proving the point

 

[Darth Vodka]

What effect do you think that the utterances of those, like yourself, who regard themselves as bright and well informed had on the voting of those who you suggest are "dumb as ****"?

I would think that if they consider themselves bright, then they would understand that a general slur against the electorate's intelligence... if accurate, would mean they were outliers

Seems fairly logical to me...

 

[Darth Vodka]

Except this time we aren't going to war against some tin pot nation that has more reverse gears than forwards when it comes to fighting, the Russians would annihilate us, and the EU would get wipped out when it spent 20 months bickering among themselves, the Russians won't **** about. This is far more concerning than Brexit

the EU....does not go to war, it's a trading bloc

 

[Darth Vodka]

As Boc says, this post eloquently sums up why the left keep losing.
You can have all the good ideas in the world but if you consider anyone who holds different opinions to be 'dumb as ****', they oddly won't vote for you.

Not sure who on the left was accusing the electorate as dumb as ****?

As for me accusing people who hold different opinions as dumb... well, there are objective truths out there you know

If you believe the earth is flat, yes, you are dumb, sorry, your opinion is not as true as....the right one

If you believe in God, yeah, that's also not true

There is a correlation between intelligence and opinions that have a basis in reality

If you think Brexit was (or if any are left... still is) a good idea, this is something in direct contraction of the facts

Opinions against facts = dumber

If you want, conduct a study and ask people something that has no basis in reality.... like "do you believe in fairies?" and then test them for IQ

 

[Darth Vodka]

speaking of belief in things that no anchoring in facts....

they don't have IQ on here, shame