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Payne74 said:
Because the company helped anyone that wanted help with visas, like I've said repeatedly the sole reason for leaving was the end of IR35 and the 20k pay cut that it brought
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You've repeatedly said that those 14 people (it began as 29 but somewhere along the line dropped) speak for every single European driver in the country.
 
1. When there is an endless supply of cheap labour available, employers will suppress wages and working conditions as much as possible.

2. When there isn't an endless supply of cheap labour, employers will need to offer improved wages and working conditions to attract workers.

3. HGV drivers do a thankless job for a pittance. If a tax break was the only thing making the job viable, then they're not being paid enough. Make the job attractive and people will do it.

3. This government has made a total fecking mess of the whole Brexit thing. If they had even basic ability to manage, there wouldn't be any supply problems. However, despite those incompetent arseholes, over time, worker shortages will be good for working people in this country.
 
Brown Nose said:
1. When there is an endless supply of cheap labour available, employers will suppress wages and working conditions as much as possible.

2. When there isn't an endless supply of cheap labour, employers will need to offer improved wages and working conditions to attract workers.

3. HGV drivers do a thankless job for a pittance. If a tax break was the only thing making the job viable, then they're not being paid enough. Make the job attractive and people will do it.

3. This government has made a total fecking mess of the whole Brexit thing. If they had even basic ability to manage, there wouldn't be any supply problems. However, despite those incompetent arseholes, over time, worker shortages will be good for working people in this country.
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They'll only be good though if the employers end up offering better conditions. I'm not convinced this government won't piss billions up the wall trying to maintain the status quo and show business as usual to try to prove they're not at fault.
 
Brown Nose said:
1. When there is an endless supply of cheap labour available, employers will suppress wages and working conditions as much as possible.

2. When there isn't an endless supply of cheap labour, employers will need to offer improved wages and working conditions to attract workers.

3. HGV drivers do a thankless job for a pittance. If a tax break was the only thing making the job viable, then they're not being paid enough. Make the job attractive and people will do it.

3. This government has made a total fecking mess of the whole Brexit thing. If they had even basic ability to manage, there wouldn't be any supply problems. However, despite those incompetent arseholes, over time, worker shortages will be good for working people in this country.
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4, BN. The last one should be 4.
 
Matt_B said:
You've repeatedly said that those 14 people (it began as 29 but somewhere along the line dropped)
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If you had read all my posts you would see that I said 29 drivers left our company due to the ending of IR35 I was involved in the exit interviews of 14 of those Drivers, it wasn't that difficult to follow but hopefully I've explained it in terms you understand
 
Brown Nose said:
3. HGV drivers do a thankless job for a pittance. If a tax break was the only thing making the job viable, then they're not being paid enough. Make the job attractive and people will do it.
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The majority of HGV jobs are as you describe but there are also HGV jobs that you need a secondary skill to do, we have a section within our company called specialists instillations and the drivers that work in that department do cryogenics, they earn in excess of £65k.

Companies like BOC, Air Liquide and Air products all do Cryogenic gases and their drivers earn salaries similar to our cryogenic drivers, there are drivers working for the mentioned companies doing weekend night work that are hitting £100k a year.

These jobs are few and far between so to make the pay reasonable HGV drivers become Ltd companies and use IR35 they pay themselves £9500 a year to keep them below the tax threshold but in the NI bracket they then claim tax credits to top it up and every month pay themselves a dividend, when you're a Ltd company using IR35 you get an extra £2k tax allowance before you pay tax so £14500. The dividends are taxed at 7.5% up to £50k. The drivers will have a tax bill of £2662.50 for a salary of £50k.
Now IR35 has ended the low paid jobs aren't worth doing anymore hence the reason why there is a driver shortage.
 
Payne74 said:
The majority of HGV jobs are as you describe but there are also HGV jobs that you need a secondary skill to do, we have a section within our company called specialists instillations and the drivers that work in that department do cryogenics, they earn in excess of £65k.

Companies like BOC, Air Liquide and Air products all do Cryogenic gases and their drivers earn salaries similar to our cryogenic drivers, there are drivers working for the mentioned companies doing weekend night work that are hitting £100k a year.

These jobs are few and far between so to make the pay reasonable HGV drivers become Ltd companies and use IR35 they pay themselves £9500 a year to keep them below the tax threshold but in the NI bracket they then claim tax credits to top it up and every month pay themselves a dividend, when you're a Ltd company using IR35 you get an extra £2k tax allowance before you pay tax so £14500. The dividends are taxed at 7.5% up to £50k. The drivers will have a tax bill of £2662.50 for a salary of £50k.
Now IR35 has ended the low paid jobs aren't worth doing anymore hence the reason why there is a driver shortage.
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Meanwhile, people on lower paid jobs that can't do that are paying far more tax. Glad they closed the loophole.
 
Matt_B said:
Meanwhile, people on lower paid jobs that can't do that are paying far more tax. Glad they closed the loophole.
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Yes I agree with you entirely, that's exactly why the government closed this loophole but the consequences are the EE drivers don't want to work for a lot lower pay for doing the same job so have decided to go home.
It's very convenient for some to just blame Brexit when in reality it's the closing of a tax loophole that has caused the driver shortage.
But what would I know I haven't read the Financial Times or listened to the RHA harp on about relaxing the rules for foreign drivers, why would a EE driver come back to the UK because the Government have relaxed the immigration laws only to be hit with 20% and 40% tax rates on PAYE.
 
Payne74 said:
Yes I agree with you entirely, that's exactly why the government closed this loophole but the consequences are the EE drivers don't want to work for a lot lower pay for doing the same job so have decided to go home.
It's very convenient for some to just blame Brexit when in reality it's the closing of a tax loophole that has caused the driver shortage.
But what would I know I haven't read the Financial Times or listened to the RHA harp on about relaxing the rules for foreign drivers, why would a EE driver come back to the UK because the Government have relaxed the immigration laws only to be hit with 20% and 40% tax rates on PAYE.
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For the third time. If it’s entirely IR35, why are there no driver shortages in Northern Ireland?
 
The UK was the only country that allowed HGV drivers to work for the same company but be self employed so the lower paid EU drivers typically from Eastern European countries decided to economically migrate to the UK.

They would then register for work with an employment agency get an hourly rate of £13 set up their own Ltd company and then go and drive trucks for Tesco, DpD or whomever they would claim £15 a day substance allowance £22:50 a day night out money £0:45 per mile travelling to and from work, the mobile phone was also claimed back on expenses.
They would then pay themselves through their own company a low wage that would then entitle them to claim tax credits from the government (tax credits based on your salary)
Each month a dividend payment from the Ltd company is paid but this is on top of all the expenses I mentioned above which would all be tax free.
On the 1st April 2021 the government abolished the IR35 umbrella company tax system, the reason its becoming apparent now is that alot of companies were in furlough due to Covid so they didn't need drivers now the economy is opening up again the companies are finding out the EE drivers left the UK on the 1st of April.

The EE countries over the years have seen their pay increase to within the UK amounts so with the end of IR35 the reason for being an economic migrant ended.
Now I could be completely wrong and spending 20 minutes filling in an online right to stay form might be so challenging that they all just fled back to the mother land in shock.

I have no idea how Northan Ireland works nor do I have any idea on how pig farms pay their employees, all I know is the reason our company is losing EE drivers is because of the ending of IR35, they have instructed a recruitment consultant firm to fill the positions and they have told our company its happening all over the UK so maybe everyone within my industry is lying.
It won't be long before wages for driving for supermarkets and parcel companies are hitting £60k PAYE this is purely to match what IR35 lost.
That £13 on PAYE is a pittance without the tax breaks so it will likely become £20 to make up the difference in lost tax.
Of course supermarkets aren't going to pay this so expect groceries to rise in price. It will also be used as an excuse for poor service "so sorry Mrs h your stuff hasn't arrived because of driver shortage" when in reality the company is just poorly run but now has an excellent excuse.
 
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