Coronavirus

[Joe_Fox]

Just watched the first episode of "Pandemic - How to stop an outbreak". Thought it was good. Can't see it happening though, then again....

 

[Miles Away]

Stringer says he has it, despite not being actually tested.

I’ll just leave that sentence at that.

Posting video updates now.

 

[bocadillo]

Yes my point is that key services has been left so open they're ending up with far too many kids still at school. The school have had parents claiming they are a key worker because they work in recruitment for the LA. That's not essential but falls under LA workers. Part time doctors surgery receptionists are using the service full time because they can as NHS. It's been so poorly thought out and left to heads to be the gatekeepers against angry and selfish parents.

It's been kept wide to include everybody it needs to include, but I'm inclined to agree with you that that has allowed it to include some that should not be included. And the problem really is the people who will take advantage of it. Just like the people who have been unable (or refuse) to understand the concept of social distancing. They're idiots. I don't envy the task of headteachers.

 

[Jeff]

 

[pork pie fox]

Schmeichel calls for help for charity after making huge donation

The Leicester City goalkeeper has donated a five-figure sum to Age UK as they bid to help the most vulnerable in the city and county cope with the spread of Covid-19

www.leicestermercury.co.uk

 

[ThaiSweetChilli]

What the **** are you on about ?

Over 11,000 have died already, and the toll in the UK is going to soar over the next few weeks if we don’t minimise social interaction immediately. We may well have dithered around for too long already.

I work in the NHS and it’s about to ****ing collapse into an absolute war zone if we don’t slow down the spread of this thing right now

Italy is in absolute ****ing meltdown, having lost 4,000 people already, and Spain is not far behind them. If we don’t get this right we’ll be in a worse position in two weeks time

It’s complete ****s lime Icke, and the head-in-the-sand wankers merrily ignoring all expert medical advice, who are the real threat here, not some fake ****ing cult controlling and directing the world

Absolute ****ing bollocks, of the very highest order

I think you need a valium. It's panicky ****s who will be responsible for the total collapse of this country and the holier-than-thou wankers who can't open their mind to a different opinion, approach or reason.

When I say "a few people will be affected by this" I mean few people will be seriously ill and/or die. Which is the truth based on the the fatalities so far. Yes there are trends, but no one actually knows what's going to happen.

As of March 19th: 64,621 tests have been completed in the UK, 3269 tested positive, there were 144 deaths. Therefore 95% of those tested, tested negatively.

The number of people dead as of today (281) is under 5% of those tested positively so far (5683). This disease has only caused fatalities in the UK in older or vulnerable people, not young healthy people. There is however a rising amount of fatalities but that's also dependent on where the disease is spreading more, based on age population in that area or areas etc.

Italy have a higher percentage of older people in their population than we do. Their rate of serious cases/death is scary but we don't know whether we'll experience the same. Some trends are showing it's possible but certainly not guaranteed. Also worth noting that 2/3 of the Italian deaths are in Lombardy. It is clearly a hotspot where it's spiralled and it's nowhere near as bad in other areas in Italy. I'd like to see the figure excluding Lombardy.

Lockdown is not the only way to slow the disease. How the deaths, critical cases and strain on the NHS is stopped or slowed down is actually not clear. There are different ways clearly evidenced by differences in approaches between Sweden and Denmark. The former have not closed borders, schools, cafes etc whereas the latter have closed almost everything. Sweden has 1934 cases and 21 deaths; Denmark has 1395 cases and 13 deaths. Both excellent ratios, different approaches.

If we look at South Korea, a democratic country of 50 million, they haven't locked down like so many other countries. They managed to slow down cases from peaking at an increase of 909 cases per day to just 64 today - they slowed the rut massively which is significantly more difficult than preventing the spread. No lockdown. At all. They did this by having the second highest amount of testing in the world, second to Bahrain who have 2 deaths from 334 cases.

It's clear that constant testing is the way to prevent an increase in cases and also slow down our increase of cases, not necessarily lockdown and panic. Lockdown is not appropriate for the UK because of the unlikeliness that it will be adhered to properly. We have the whole world living here with diverse thinking and cultures. It's difficult to appeal to so many different mindsets as a whole, some are bound to ignore warnings and it leaves us isolating pointlessly.

I say test vigorously ASAP and ensure those most at risk are the only ones isolated. Practice excellent hygiene, wear masks, reduce social contact where possible and if you're showing symptoms then self-isolate. But there is absolutely no need to lockdown full. Or close schools. Or shut cafes and pubs.

Calm down, reduce the panic and think rationally.

 

[ThaiSweetChilli]

To be fair to you, at times when stress and anxiety increases, it is quite normal to look for alternative explanations. If you feel that reality is no longer within your control, our brains seem to seek out a coping mechanism. It is why so many people turn to religion at difficult times in their life.

So, I'm not going to ridicule your search for answers. What appears to happen is that when someone dismisses someone that thinks this way, they just entrench themselves even further into that world. I wouldn't want to encourage you to do this.

People like Icke and faith healers and evangelists and alternative therapy gurus and clairvoyants all prey upon that same human weakness that we all share. In the world of social media, this stuff is so easily accessible and easy to fall for.

I think you're misguided and doing yourself no favours. It is much better to take a quiet moment to yourself and accept what is happening and that there is very little you can do about it except to protect yourself and others. There is no grand conspiracy.

Someone got infected from a bat in China and spread it to others, who spread it to others, and so on. Such a method is actually pretty common and really not that unusual or unexpected. It's a very dangerous infection for anyone with a weakened immune system or existing lung or heart issues.

It could be worse though. Some very smart people are saying that this is a very effective dress rehearsal for a more serious infection that could easily occur if we don't shut down the opportunities for it to develop and spend more on effective management of infections. If you want something worthwhile to focus on, focus on that.

Thanks for the advice BN. I agree that people tend to search for alternative answers etc in times of panic. I also agree that when they're ridiculed they become fanatics!

This is certainly not the case with me though. I'm worried for my nan and for the fact that I'm essentially losing months of my life doing very little. But no panic or search for something greater here. I just enjoy seeing varied thoughts and takes on things.

I am not a fan of David Icke at all. I think he's full of crap mostly. And I don't agree with him on this "cult" idea but I do think there's more to this than a person eating a bat and then the domino effect of this happening.

The cash thing he said makes sense. Currently in Buenos Aires they've banned all cash transactions to avoid spreading disease just like he said they would. Do i believe a cult wants us to go cashless? No. But i do believe that we're a becoming a more Orwellian world and card transactions are a part of that.

I also believe there's more to 9/11 than meets the eye, more to some wars than meet the eye, more to Hitler's apparent suicide than meets the eye.

I challenge conventional theories to look for a possible alternative. If I don't see one, then that's fine. I'm fascinated by Litvinenko's poisoning and the whole Novichok poisoning or The Cold War and espionage. I think there's more to this current situation in a Cold War-esque way.

Do you think beyond reasonable doubt that it's as simple as a person eating a bat?

 

[mabrah]

Johnson's response reminds me of a Robin Williams joke about British police not being armed - 'if you don't stop I'll shout stop again'

 

[pork pie fox]

I think you need a valium. It's panicky ****s who will be responsible for the total collapse of this country and the holier-than-thou wankers who can't open their mind to a different opinion, approach or reason.

When I say "a few people will be affected by this" I mean few people will be seriously ill and/or die. Which is the truth based on the the fatalities so far. Yes there are trends, but no one actually knows what's going to happen.

As of March 19th: 64,621 tests have been completed in the UK, 3269 tested positive, there were 144 deaths. Therefore 95% of those tested, tested negatively.

The number of people dead as of today (281) is under 5% of those tested positively so far (5683). This disease has only caused fatalities in the UK in older or vulnerable people, not young healthy people. There is however a rising amount of fatalities but that's also dependent on where the disease is spreading more, based on age population in that area or areas etc.

Italy have a higher percentage of older people in their population than we do. Their rate of serious cases/death is scary but we don't know whether we'll experience the same. Some trends are showing it's possible but certainly not guaranteed. Also worth noting that 2/3 of the Italian deaths are in Lombardy. It is clearly a hotspot where it's spiralled and it's nowhere near as bad in other areas in Italy. I'd like to see the figure excluding Lombardy.

Lockdown is not the only way to slow the disease. How the deaths, critical cases and strain on the NHS is stopped or slowed down is actually not clear. There are different ways clearly evidenced by differences in approaches between Sweden and Denmark. The former have not closed borders, schools, cafes etc whereas the latter have closed almost everything. Sweden has 1934 cases and 21 deaths; Denmark has 1395 cases and 13 deaths. Both excellent ratios, different approaches.

If we look at South Korea, a democratic country of 50 million, they haven't locked down like so many other countries. They managed to slow down cases from peaking at an increase of 909 cases per day to just 64 today - they slowed the rut massively which is significantly more difficult than preventing the spread. No lockdown. At all. They did this by having the second highest amount of testing in the world, second to Bahrain who have 2 deaths from 334 cases.

It's clear that constant testing is the way to prevent an increase in cases and also slow down our increase of cases, not necessarily lockdown and panic. Lockdown is not appropriate for the UK because of the unlikeliness that it will be adhered to properly. We have the whole world living here with diverse thinking and cultures. It's difficult to appeal to so many different mindsets as a whole, some are bound to ignore warnings and it leaves us isolating pointlessly.

I say test vigorously ASAP and ensure those most at risk are the only ones isolated. Practice excellent hygiene, wear masks, reduce social contact where possible and if you're showing symptoms then self-isolate. But there is absolutely no need to lockdown full. Or close schools. Or shut cafes and pubs.

Calm down, reduce the panic and think rationally.

With respect, TSC, that sounds like quite a blasé attitude to the deaths of those affected. Just because they are older, or have preexisting medical conditions, doesn’t mean we should casually just accept that. There are thousands of deaths in Italy and we know we are behind the curve compared to them. This means we are likely to have thousands of deaths here too. The Chief Medical Officer himself said that it would be a “good result” if we keep deaths below 20000. That’s not a situation we should just be happy to accept.

 

[Feriol]

Too many people don't realise how serious it is until it effects them. I get to work this morning, the MD is now self isolating with symptoms, only now does he close the place for 2 weeks.

Bikers going to Matlock Bath like it's a bank holiday.

It makes me laugh, I have seen people being interviewed in city centers complaining that people don't listen to the advice...what are you doing in the city center you Muppet? I doubt many people walk through city centers for food shopping.

Everyone seems to think they are okay, but everyone else is the problem.

 

[ThaiSweetChilli]

With respect, TSC, that sounds like quite a blasé attitude to the deaths of those affected. Just because they are older, or have preexisting medical conditions, doesn’t mean we should casually just accept that. There are thousands of deaths in Italy and we know we are behind the curve compared to them. This means we are likely to have thousands of deaths here too. The Chief Medical Officer himself said that it would be a “good result” if we keep deaths below 20000. That’s not a situation we should just be happy to accept.

Pork Pie, I mean no disrespect. I care for, respect and love the elderly and think it's our duty to ensure they're cared for when needed. But they (depends on what you define as "elderly") make up just 18% of the population.

For me we need to ensure we try to cater for everyone else as well as the elderly/vulnerable. As I said I'm petrified for my nan who literally raised me as one of her own. But I don't think shutting down everything is the answer.

I say isolate those most vulnerable or susceptible to the horrible implications of this virus and for the rest of us, take care with all relevant measures including social distancing, hygiene etc. For me this is a better balance and ensures that all of our infrastructure isn't obliterated by the virus.

It also is like taking one for the team IMO. By continuing to live life and only isolating those most vulnerable we can aim to create a herd immunity amongst those of us who can afford to catch the virus and thus recover before the elderly start to resume normal life.

The deaths worldwide including Italy are horrible. And I hope and pray this slows down and stops. It is a catastrophic time and is truly sad that so many have passed away.

I'm wary of Italian comparisons because their population is older and smoking is more popular there. The average age of those dying from COVID-19 in Italy is 78.5 years old. This disease is more fatal to men than women, in the UK we have 16.5% of men who smoke vs 26% of men who smoke in Italy. The aging population and smokers combined makes it more deadly there.

Listen this is an absolute disaster. It's a horrible set of events and I'm not downplaying that. The disease is destructive and deadly. I just think we need to look at a more overall rounded picture. For me the Govt agrees with my plan on the whole it seems, but are buckling under pressure just because the rest of the world is locking down. For me there needs to be total lockdown or total freedom apart from those vulnerable.

20k deaths is horribly sad and I hope it doesn't come to that. Testing testing testing will be our saviour so fingers crossed we can get that done at the target rate of 25k tests per day.

But hey this is just my opinion, and I'm entitled to it. I respect yours and whoever else's, I just believe in a different plan.

 

[ThaiSweetChilli]

Too many people don't realise how serious it is until it effects them. I get to work this morning, the MD is now self isolating with symptoms, only now does he close the place for 2 weeks.

Bikers going to Matlock Bath like it's a bank holiday.

It makes me laugh, I have seen people being interviewed in city centers complaining that people don't listen to the advice...what are you doing in the city center you Muppet? I doubt many people walk through city centers for food shopping.

Everyone seems to think they are okay, but everyone else is the problem.

I think the govt advice lacks authority. It's advice when it needs to be an order.

Your MD is a muppet and so are those bikers. Social distancing clearly not in their plans.

This is all of our problem.

 

[Volpone]

I have just listened to radio 4 an interview with a doctor who has just finished a shift at st Thomas's hospital in London. She said don't think this only affects the elderly and those with underlying health problems. They have an increasing number of young and fit 30 and 40 year olds who are in intensive care fighting for their lives. Please tell your loved ones to stay at home.

 

[mabrah]

But I don't think shutting down everything is the answer.

From a personal perspective, I think it's perfectly fine to ask the question. Indeed, I want that there are people that ask questions. I've pondered it myself, I suspect many of us have in some shape or form. There will be costs to a shutdown too (and not just monetary) so I think it right and proper that people explore that.

I would say though, in a related aside, that at times of crisis that one not only looks for leadership but also ought be prepared to follow that leadership even if one disagrees with it. I guess it borders on a philosophical question though; is it better that we all go in the same direction, even if it is the wrong one, rather than fight over which way to go and end up going nowhere?

 

[Blaarev]

I have just listened to radio 4 an interview with a doctor who has just finished a shift at st Thomas's hospital in London. She said don't think this only affects the elderly and those with underlying health problems. They have an increasing number of young and fit 30 and 40 year olds who are in intensive care fighting for their lives. Please tell your loved ones to stay at home.

That’s the case over here as well. The reason for the fatality numbers being lower for younger people is that they are better equipped to receive and survive the treatment. But they may suffer chronic lung issues (among other things) even if they survive and have reduced life quality as a consequence. Regarding herd immunity: Anyone willing to take one for the team and volunteer to take the risk and get infected? Not me!

 

[mabrah]

But they may suffer chronic lung issues (among other things) even if they survive and have reduced life quality as a consequence.

I heard on Doc saying the same thing on Radio 4 yesterday. I didn't know that.

 

[Matt_B]

That’s the case over here as well. The reason for the fatality numbers being lower for younger people is that they are better equipped to receive and survive the treatment. But they may suffer chronic lung issues (among other things) even if they survive and have reduced life quality as a consequence. Regarding herd immunity: Anyone willing to take one for the team and volunteer to take the risk and get infected? Not me!

At the moment there is no evidence that this strain induces long-term immunity. Most coronavirus apparently only have short-term immunity, it's why we keep getting colds. If this is the case with Covid-19, then herd immunity will never happen and a vaccine may end up being largely pointless.

 

[Jeff]

At the moment there is no evidence that this strain induces long-term immunity. Most coronavirus apparently only have short-term immunity, it's why we keep getting colds. If this is the case with Covid-19, then herd immunity will never happen and a vaccine may end up being largely pointless.

A vaccine could help even if it only provides short term immunity. If everyone is vaccinated the virus could die out completely in humans.
But of coures there would be the usual idiots who think vaccines are unsafe, and would refuse to have it.

 

[Jeff]

By continuing to live life and only isolating those most vulnerable we can aim to create a herd immunity amongst those of us who can afford to catch the virus and thus recover before the elderly start to resume normal life.

How do you know who can afford to catch the virus?

If people who think they're not vulnerable continue to act normally, the NHS will be overwhelmed, and many people will die who wouldn't otherwise have done.

The reason the fatality rate is relatively low at the moment is because people have had access to treatment. That might not be the case for much longer. How many lives do you think we should sacrifice so people can still go to the pub?

And I wish they would stop talking about those who have died so far as having underlying health issues. It makes it sound like they were already at death's door before getting the virus. Some of those people would have been able to live normal lives for decades, despite their health problems.

Some of the things that put people at higher risk are things that people might not even know they've got. People can have heart problems, diabetes, hypertension etc for years without knowing it.

Testing testing testing will be our saviour so fingers crossed we can get that done at the target rate of 25k tests per day.

Testing should have been made a priority right from the start. Only a couple of weeks ago people were able to get off a plane from Italy and go home on the train, with no testing or self isolation.
25,000 tests a day doesn't sound anywhere near enough. There are likely to be many more people than that already infected, and that number could increase exponentially. Self test kits that people can use at home should be available in around a month,

We also need tests to see if people have already had it and recovered. There will be people who have been ill and got better, who think they've had it, so are now behaving as though they're immune. But most of those people won't have had it.

 

[homer]

Keep calm and carry on, say the complete ****wits

Meanwhile, in the real world...

Doctor reveals coronavirus patients in their 30s are in intensive care

Dr Rosena Allin-Khan, Labour MP for Tooting in south London, worked at St George's Hospital over the weekend and said the number of coronavirus patients in hospitals is rising 'very, very quickly'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

London Covid-19 doctor says soon staff will be forced to choose whose life to save

Rosena Allin-Khan, a Labour MP and A&E doctor, reveals ‘heart-wrenching’ decisions facing hospital workers

www.theguardian.com