Entertainment versus results

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Why do think that any opinion that differs from your own is indicative of being 'childish' or 'thick' ?

The football supporter is an unusual animal, that gets many different things out of supporting a team and/or actually going to a game

Just because, in many cases, the primary desire is to see their side win (over and above all other things, including 'entertainment') doesn't mean that they are immature or stupid in any way.
How strange that your train of thought automatically thinks that it does

Homer, in my original reply to your post i apologised for my terminology, as i said; i couldn't think of a better phrase to replace it.

I want to see us win, but not at all costs, if that makes me intellectual then i'll take it. :icon_wink I was (and you know i was) refering to 'tribal'.
 
:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

You can doubt it all you want. You wont find another Leicester fan who when asked "What is your favourite ever Leicester game?" will honestly say the Swindon game.

The Swindon game was the best game I've ever attended. Nothing has ever got close to that moment when Steve Thompson scored. Irrespective of the result, the game was an amazing experience. For example, it was far superior than winning the 2000 final at Wembley.

However, whilst I appreciate and understand that entertainment over results argument, I think it's flawed.

Perfection is entertainment and results. It's what every football fan would surely choose? However, successful entertaining football requires very good players and an exceptionally good manager. The market dictates that any time a club like ours gets anyone remotely that good, they are going to be taken by a richer, bigger, club.

Along with pretty much everyone else, we cannot aspire to both. Given this, apart from in very short spells, entertainment means generally unsuccessful football.

One obvious exponent of this methodology was David Pleat. He wanted entertaining football. He recruited and picked players and tactics that matched this philosophy. One or two players shone and were snapped up by bigger clubs, and the rest floundered against better organised and results orientated opposition. Anyone who witnessed these frustrating years of football will confirm how disappointing entertainment can be.

The opposite philosophy was seen straight after Pleat with Brian Little. The football we played under him was usually very ugly. He purposely recruited players who could follow orders and run around a lot. Skill and entertainment were incidental to winning. Personally, I welcomed us winning after years or mediocrity. And I think this was a view held by the overwhelming majority.

Right now, we're coming out of a period of our worst results ever leading to relegation to League One. Results recover our position, reputation, pride, morale etc. Entertainment doesn't. I can see that NP is trying to adopt a more attractive style of play (i.e. less lumping to Howard) and I applaud this as long as it doesn't lead to worse results. If we need to lump to win, virtually all of us will happily accept this.

Therefore, results always win. Quite right too. You could apply the same argument to Capitalism verses Socialism. Socialism, like entertaining football, is an ideal that doesn't really exist. So despite its unpleasantness, we are happy to live under a Capitalist (results based) system.

It's also an analogy that follows as far as progress is concerned. I think that results based teams make the game improve. Our style of play under MON had to be countered by others. Bigger, better clubs had to get better because of this. The pressing 3-5-2 system had to be found out, and it eventually was. To soley entertain is also to stagnate. Entertainment is subjective and finite. Like Socialism.

I think.
 
Did the Swindon game end when Steve Thompson scored ? Walshies winner against our bitter rivals remains the ultmate high for me. Oh and we won that one :icon_wink
 
Homer, in my original reply to your post i apologised for my terminology, as i said; i couldn't think of a better phrase to replace it.

I want to see us win, but not at all costs, if that makes me intellectual then i'll take it. :icon_wink I was (and you know i was) refering to 'tribal'.

But tribalism is part and parcel of football, and long may it reign

Without blind loyalty and unbridled love for your football team it becomes little more than just another sport to watch on the telly. For ninety minutes I detest the opposition, and have a burning desire for my team to win regardless of the style of play. There is no logic to it, and certainly no rational intellectual explanation for how you feel. That's football !

It is simply delightful to win playing entertaining attractive dominant total football - but without the win itself, it is relatively meaningless
 
The Swindon game was the best game I've ever attended. Nothing has ever got close to that moment when Steve Thompson scored. Irrespective of the result, the game was an amazing experience. For example, it was far superior than winning the 2000 final at Wembley.


Well there you go, I though Camberwell was mental but it turns out somebody else also rates losing to Swindon as their favourite ever game.

I admit that Thompson scoring was amazing, but for me the result will always over shadow anything that happened in the game.
 
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Well there you go, I though Camberwell was mental but it turns out somebody else also rates losing to Swindon as their favourite ever game.

I admit that Thompson scoring was amazing, but for me the result will always over shadow anything that happened in the game.

Well, well, well Willow, it appears there are more lunatics out of the asylum than you thought...
 
The Swindon game was the best game I've ever attended. Nothing has ever got close to that moment when Steve Thompson scored. Irrespective of the result, the game was an amazing experience. For example, it was far superior than winning the 2000 final at Wembley.

However, whilst I appreciate and understand that entertainment over results argument, I think it's flawed.

Perfection is entertainment and results. It's what every football fan would surely choose? However, successful entertaining football requires very good players and an exceptionally good manager. The market dictates that any time a club like ours gets anyone remotely that good, they are going to be taken by a richer, bigger, club.

Along with pretty much everyone else, we cannot aspire to both. Given this, apart from in very short spells, entertainment means generally unsuccessful football.

One obvious exponent of this methodology was David Pleat. He wanted entertaining football. He recruited and picked players and tactics that matched this philosophy. One or two players shone and were snapped up by bigger clubs, and the rest floundered against better organised and results orientated opposition. Anyone who witnessed these frustrating years of football will confirm how disappointing entertainment can be.

The opposite philosophy was seen straight after Pleat with Brian Little. The football we played under him was usually very ugly. He purposely recruited players who could follow orders and run around a lot. Skill and entertainment were incidental to winning. Personally, I welcomed us winning after years or mediocrity. And I think this was a view held by the overwhelming majority.

Right now, we're coming out of a period of our worst results ever leading to relegation to League One. Results recover our position, reputation, pride, morale etc. Entertainment doesn't. I can see that NP is trying to adopt a more attractive style of play (i.e. less lumping to Howard) and I applaud this as long as it doesn't lead to worse results. If we need to lump to win, virtually all of us will happily accept this.

Therefore, results always win. Quite right too. You could apply the same argument to Capitalism verses Socialism. Socialism, like entertaining football, is an ideal that doesn't really exist. So despite its unpleasantness, we are happy to live under a Capitalist (results based) system.

It's also an analogy that follows as far as progress is concerned. I think that results based teams make the game improve. Our style of play under MON had to be countered by others. Bigger, better clubs had to get better because of this. The pressing 3-5-2 system had to be found out, and it eventually was. To soley entertain is also to stagnate. Entertainment is subjective and finite. Like Socialism.

I think.

Far too sensible for this forum A+. :icon_wink
 
Entertainment...I know I am strange. I haven't enjoy this season much at all really. I would have said results three years ago, not now. Swindle was one of our greatest games ever. Entertainment isn't measure on goals...ala the win at QPR.
 
Entertainment...I know I am strange. I haven't enjoy this season much at all really. I would have said results three years ago, not now. Swindle was one of our greatest games ever. Entertainment isn't measure on goals...ala the win at QPR.

Another lunatic, careful Willow, we're out there...:icon_wink:038::)
 
Another lunatic, careful Willow, we're out there...:icon_wink:038::)

Just to make you happy, my favourite City game is 3-4 at Stamford Bridge a couple of years ago...

But I think that being my first live City game ever might have something to do with it - I was completely struck by it all.
 
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Entertainment is a bonus if we win, consolation if we draw and meaningless if we lose.
 
Just to make you happy, my favourite City game is 3-4 at Stamford Bridge a couple of years ago...

But I think that being my first live City game ever might have something to do with it - I was completely struck by it all.

On that occasion, the result didn't matter. It was in a meaningless competition that we were never going to win. What made that a good experience was the character shown by the players that night, the fact that we went in front not once but twice, having been behind in between, the fact that we scored more times at Stamford Bridge than even the likes of Barcelona could dream of, and that our boys looked the equal of their multimillionaire opponents.
 
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