Family's dream holiday in ruins

[Matt_B]

You know me that well do you?

Of course the blind following of a foolish law would not equate to the blind following of a definition within a post.

Beighton, no need to get personal, open your eyes, open your mind. I could even be wrong you know, but I'm guessing I've had more contact with educational systems throughout Europe than you have. what age are your kids?

I agree it was perhaps too personal, but it does appear to be how you have applied to this argument.

I have no kids as I have specified elsewhere in this thread, something I'm guessingyou had read and knew so where mentioning to make a point.

I couldn't care less about the educational system elsewhere in Europe, it has no bearing on my original point. Similarly I would argue that your apparant historical knowledge (you have said you "had" experience, not "have", so I'm guessing you are no longer in the field) of the English educational system is not as relevant as the very current knowledge I have being engaged and living with a head of year teacher, but again it is irrelevant to my point.

As you seem to have forgotten the points here they are in simple bullet form:

• Taking kids out of school for holidays purely for the benefit of cost/destination is illegal
• You argue that on holiday they learn "life lessons". Apparantly they can learn a lot by splashing in the sea, surely they could also learn a lot playing in a school field then?
• The point of school is to teach fact/figures/ideas/ways of thinking, not life lessons. As the title says, life lessons are learnt by living a life. You will not learn alegebra, grammar, history or text book science on holiday, I don't care where you go.

I can make and justify all of those points without needing kids, or being involved with the education system, just by using common sense. Something again that you appear to have mis-placed.

 

[FIF]

I agree it was perhaps too personal, but it does appear to be how you have applied to this argument.

I have no kids as I have specified elsewhere in this thread, something I'm guessingyou had read and knew so where mentioning to make a point.

I couldn't care less about the educational system elsewhere in Europe, it has no bearing on my original point. Similarly I would argue that your apparant historical knowledge (you have said you "had" experience, not "have", so I'm guessing you are no longer in the field) of the English educational system is not as relevant as the very current knowledge I have being engaged and living with a head of year teacher, but again it is irrelevant to my point.

As you seem to have forgotten the points here they are in simple bullet form:

• Taking kids out of school for holidays purely for the benefit of cost/destination is illegal
• You argue that on holiday they learn "life lessons". Apparantly they can learn a lot by splashing in the sea, surely they could also learn a lot playing in a school field then?
• The point of school is to teach fact/figures/ideas/ways of thinking, not life lessons. As the title says, life lessons are learnt by living a life. You will not learn alegebra, grammar, history or text book science on holiday, I don't care where you go.

I can make and justify all of those points without needing kids, or being involved with the education system, just by using common sense. Something again that you appear to have mis-placed.

Sorry, again your presumption is wrong, I had and I have experience of the English educational system does that now make me relevant. I also have and had experience of other systems of education which you happily discount. I would have thought someone who lived with a year head would understand the value of being able to compare and contrast different systems of attaining the same goal.

If I lived with (and was engaged to) a nuclear scientist or a gynaecologist would that make me an acceptable authority to talk about their specialisms? I would like to add that the administrative layering that includes "year heads" is also a joke. Is your fiancée a teacher an admin or is she trained and skilled in both?

Your manner of educating me using derogatory remarks and bullet point listing reminds me very much of the secondary school system in England.

but in reply

illegal is a time and space dependant argument. for example adults hitting children in school was acceptable and legal until fairly recently - does that make it right?

You and others seem to think that all holidays are spent splashing in the sea, I'm sorry that your parents didn't give you more varied holidays.

I don't think I mentioned "life lessons" that was someone else. I talked about education, I just have a wider concept of it than you it seems. I did mention flora and fauna and foreign languages which I guess could be seen as geographical lessons, language lessons, cultural lessons etc... Any decent Educationalist could cover the whole school curriculum during a holiday I'm sure.

The point of school is to educate for life not to teach facts etc... You can learn facts without the imtermediary of a bad teacher. I think your agument is bogus and falls flat on its face.

 

[Matt_B]

Sorry, again your presumption is wrong, I had and I have experience of the English educational system does that now make me relevant. I also have and had experience of other systems of education which you happily discount. I would have thought someone who lived with a year head would understand the value of being able to compare and contrast different systems of attaining the same goal.

If I lived with (and was engaged to) a nuclear scientist or a gynaecologist would that make me an acceptable authority to talk about their specialisms? I would like to add that the administrative layering that includes "year heads" is also a joke. Is your fiancée a teacher an admin or is she trained and skilled in both?

My points do not rely upon an in depth knowledge or expertise in the field, as I said in my previous post.

Your manner of educating me using derogatory remarks and bullet point listing reminds me very much of the secondary school system in England.

I agree the tone has been lowered and is detracting from the points in question.

illegal is a time and space dependant argument. for example adults hitting children in school was acceptable and legal until fairly recently - does that make it right?

But it is still illegal at the moment. And IMO should be for the reasons I have given.

You and others seem to think that all holidays are spent splashing in the sea, I'm sorry that your parents didn't give you more varied holidays.

I have only had two "seaside" holidays outside of this country whilst living with my parents, and one since. I much prefer "travel" holidays, and spent a good few weeks touring North America (and not solely tourist spots), so I have had plenty of varied holidays.

My comment was based on your response here http://www.talkingballs.co.uk/showpost.php?p=740414&postcount=198

I don't think I mentioned "life lessons" that was someone else. I talked about education, I just have a wider concept of it than you it seems. I did mention flora and fauna and foreign languages which I guess could be seen as geographical lessons, language lessons, cultural lessons etc... Any decent Educationalist could cover the whole school curriculum during a holiday I'm sure.

You may not mention it as life lessons but http://www.talkingballs.co.uk/showpost.php?p=739976&postcount=156 sounds very similar.

The point of school is to educate for life not to teach facts etc... You can learn facts without the imtermediary of a bad teacher. I think your agument is bogus and falls flat on its face.

Schools are there to provide a structured learning environment for students to learn fact, methods and ways of thinking that will benefit them in the future (as you point out, for life), not to teach them "life lessons" IMO

 

[Real Sharapova]

Just think how short this thread would have been if Newt's had had the snip aged 16.:icon_wink

 

[Melton Fox]

Just think how short this thread would have been if Newt's had had the snip aged 16.:icon_wink

Or his Dad.

 

[FIF]

Sorry Beights, but I haven't the energy to comment further, I'll just accept that we see education and holidays in a different light. I've finished my "educating" today and now I'm off for a splash in the sea (21C) which is just the other side of the road (over the dune).

 

[Macky]

I think it's terrible the way you've all hijacked newts' thread with your discussion about how shitty the British education system is.

Can we get this back on topic please?
We're supposed to be discussing poor old West Ham losing out after XLs collapse.


I say, **** 'em

 

[fitz]

Sorry, again your presumption is wrong, I had and I have experience of the English educational system does that now make me relevant. I also have and had experience of other systems of education which you happily discount. I would have thought someone who lived with a year head would understand the value of being able to compare and contrast different systems of attaining the same goal.

If I lived with (and was engaged to) a nuclear scientist or a gynaecologist would that make me an acceptable authority to talk about their specialisms? I would like to add that the administrative layering that includes "year heads" is also a joke. Is your fiancée a teacher an admin or is she trained and skilled in both?

Your manner of educating me using derogatory remarks and bullet point listing reminds me very much of the secondary school system in England.

but in reply

illegal is a time and space dependant argument. for example adults hitting children in school was acceptable and legal until fairly recently - does that make it right?

You and others seem to think that all holidays are spent splashing in the sea, I'm sorry that your parents didn't give you more varied holidays.

I don't think I mentioned "life lessons" that was someone else. I talked about education, I just have a wider concept of it than you it seems. I did mention flora and fauna and foreign languages which I guess could be seen as geographical lessons, language lessons, cultural lessons etc... Any decent Educationalist could cover the whole school curriculum during a holiday I'm sure.

The point of school is to educate for life not to teach facts etc... You can learn facts without the imtermediary of a bad teacher. I think your agument is bogus and falls flat on its face.

first highlighted point, it'd probably qualify you to talk about some of the ****s we get on here :icon_lol:

as for the second, despite not being legal that happened to kids including myself when I was in primary school, hardly ever got reported as we got the thought that 'we deserve it'....how easily influenced kids are

 

[bocadillo]

Sorry Beights, but I haven't the energy to comment further

Good grief. I thought trolls had boundless energy.

 

[newtonfox]

Just think how short this thread would have been if Newt's had had the snip aged 16.:icon_wink

:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

Or his Dad.

my dads dead you heartless bastard :icon_cry:

 

[Melton Fox]

:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:




my dads dead you heartless bastard :icon_cry:

:icon_roll

 

[newtonfox]

:icon_roll

 

[FIF]

Good grief. I thought trolls had boundless energy.

That's not nice to say Boc, how many times have I defended you and your shorts on here?

 

[MKFox]

That's not nice to say Boc, how many times have I had a good long sniff of your shorts?

ffs, not on here FIF.....

 

[spionfox]

:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:




my dads dead you heartless bastard :icon_cry:

My God. Mine too. We're not related are we Newts?

 

[Leesoh]

its a sex education booklet so yes theyre teaching kids about sex from the ages of 6, kids are inquisitive and ask loads of questions so this booklet will possibly snowball but imo they shouldnt know about things like that at 6yrs old

I know a child who, at a slightly younger age, kept asking where babies came from etc, from a very young age, and was eventually told the truth. It was told in a very matter of fact way, which the child accepted. The problem is all kids are different. Not all kids would comprehend the truth. It's a difficult subject, knowing when is the right time, but let's just say this child was glad of the information.

 

[newtonfox]

My God. Mine too. We're not related are we Newts?

Could well be ..............................






















please if there is a God don't let it be so :icon_bigg :icon_wink

 

[Hazzman]

Our university system really needs a kick up the arse.

Kick up the arse? It needs more than that fecker! An absolute power rocket up the arse.

How are you measuring intelligence?

I think it's quite obvious kids are becoming more clever and streetwise to testing. They have adapted with the education system presented to them. Footballers can be described as being ''intelligent'' yet the majority of them leave school at 16 and have never taken up further education since. They are intelligent the conditions they live in and work in. The kids of today are massively intelligent in the current conditions of schooling system. Is intelligence just restricted to knowledge and knowing the captials of countries etc.? The literal meaning is 'to understand'.

Also, I am sure the majority of schools in English run trips to places like farms etc. to provide an insight into rural life.

 

[Macky]

I think it's quite obvious kids are becoming more clever and streetwise to testing. They have adapted with the education system presented to them. Footballers can be described as being ''intelligent'' yet the majority of them leave school at 16 and have never taken up further education since. They are intelligent the conditions they live in and work in. The kids of today are massively intelligent in the current conditions of schooling system. Is intelligence just restricted to knowledge and knowing the captials of countries etc.? The literal meaning is 'to understand'.

Also, I am sure the majority of schools in English run trips to places like farms etc. to provide an insight into rural life.

Oh dear, Hazz you ****in spazmo! You've just demonstrated with that awful and crudely constructed nonsense of a paragraph, what is wrong with the British education system for ****s sake! :icon_lol:
I was praying that you wouldn't respond, but to be fair, it wasn't as bad as it could've been. :icon_wink

Before anybody tries to pull me up on my use of the English languge, I am, almost, entirely self-taught. My experience of British schooling is telling teachers how much of a **** they are, and that is almost verbatim.

 

[Hazzman]

Oh dear, Hazz you ****in spazmo! You've just demonstrated with that awful and crudely constructed nonsense of a paragraph, what is wrong with the British education system for ****s sake! :icon_lol:
I was praying that you wouldn't respond, but to be fair, it wasn't as bad as it could've been. :icon_wink

I realised that by the beginning of the seventh sentence....it was a load of shite which didn't make much sense but I'd put all that effort in, I just thought '**** it'.