Fun & games in a European country that's not in Europe

[Macky]

Re: Nottingham Forest

Islands?

Nope. Their borders would be some way out to sea

 

[Ike O'Noclassed]

Re: Nottingham Forest

Who were they well known to?

Well, apart from the obvious poor sods who were given a kicking, skinhead attacks on Asians were commonplace in Leicester in 1969, particularly after Lions speedway nights up at Blackbird Road that summer IIRC, though I also saw one in the middle of Humberstone Gate in broad daylight. When the National Front started up in Leicester in the early 1970s after the influx of refugees from Uganda, the same faces turned up at their marches which led up to their strong showing in the local elections at that time.

 

[spionfox]

Re: Nottingham Forest

Do you know of any countries that don't have artificial borders?

Australia
New Zealand
Jamaica
Cuba

(EDIT - just seen your answer to "Islands" but I still maintain the sea is a 'natural' border!)

 

[Blue Maniac]

Re: Nottingham Forest

Australia

No.

New Zealand

No.

Jamaica

Nope.

Cuba

Definitely not!

 

[Hazzman]

I must admit I had to laugh at Cuba.....

 

[Macky]

Re: Nottingham Forest

Well, apart from the obvious poor sods who were given a kicking, skinhead attacks on Asians were commonplace in Leicester in 1969, particularly after Lions speedway nights up at Blackbird Road that summer IIRC, though I also saw one in the middle of Humberstone Gate in broad daylight. When the National Front started up in Leicester in the early 1970s after the influx of refugees from Uganda, the same faces turned up at their marches which led up to their strong showing in the local elections at that time.

But what has any of that got to do with the price of eggs? Not all skinheads were into Trojan and not all of those that were had anything whatever to with any of that nonsense. It's about as relevant as saying that anybody that wears a pair of jeans must be a thug.

 

[Macky]

Re: Nottingham Forest

Cuba

Have you never heard of Guantanamo bay?

just seen your answer to "Islands" but I still maintain the sea is a 'natural' border!

An Island nation's borders do not begin at the coastline.

 

[NYC Fox]

Re: Nottingham Forest

Are people who are fans of Trojan Records known for a lack of reason?

No, I added that needless comment at the end because I was annoyed. Stupid of me.

All borders are, by definition, artificial.

That's needless pedantry - many nations either had their borders formed through geological luck, or through war or negotiation with their neighbors (both in most cases). But those who had their borders drawn for them, by external colonial powers, tend to have the most issues. Either because they feel they 'lost' land, or because they're forced to live as a minority within a border they don't agree with (Somalia, Eithiopia, Sudanm Iraq etc to name a few).

Is it too soon to ask Rome for independence?

Is it too late to expect you to contribute something meaningful to this thread?

So what has that got to do with anything at all?

Thousands of years of mistrust and hatred born from persecution are probably not going to be addressed with a couple of peace accords and a warm shandy. Besides, I was specifically addressing him comment that the persecution hadn't happened in that region. It had.

I thought 'evil, disgusting shower of murderous *****' was a fair description, to be honest.

You think because their government is a reactionary intolerant despotic disgrace, the entire country (including its football team) should be labelled in that way? People like you are the reason issues like this can never be resolved. Congratulations.

 

[Ike O'Noclassed]

Re: Nottingham Forest

But what has any of that got to do with the price of eggs? Not all skinheads were into Trojan and not all of those that were had anything whatever to with any of that nonsense. It's about as relevant as saying that anybody that wears a pair of jeans must be a thug.

I just gave an answer to Jeff's question upthread about what the Trojan logo has to do with lack of reason. I have tried to explain that from direct experience, it was perfectly possible for a skinhead in the late 1960s in Leicester to

(a) be happily sewing Israeli Army insignia and Stars of David on their parkas - as the 1967 war was received with ecstatic approval at the time, not least because of their unfeasibly hot women soldiers; whilst also routinely abusing Jews with the usual anti-semitic garbage (big noses for e.g).

(b) enthusiastically laying in to any poor Asian who crossed their path, who at the time kept themselves to themselves, and tended to meet racist attacks with desperate attempts to please the aggressors which just made things worse.

(c) profess a love of Trojan's Jamaican music, though from memory garbage like Judge Dread was always more popular here, and especially stuff like "Skinhead Moon Stomp" from which stomp was the usual term taken as the code for racial violence, rather than the later paki-bashing. At the same time of course, they were avid supporters of Enoch Powell - we like your music, but feck off back home.

As I say, that's a good representation of why I pretty much share NYC Fox's view about "lack of reason" when I see that logo - badge of shame IMO.

Hope that helps.

 

[Macky]

Re: Nottingham Forest

I just gave an answer to Jeff's question upthread about what the Trojan logo has to do with lack of reason. I have tried to explain that from direct experience, it was perfectly possible for a skinhead in the late 1960s in Leicester to

(a) be happily sewing Israeli Army insignia and Stars of David on their parkas - as the 1967 war was received with ecstatic approval at the time, not least because of their unfeasibly hot women soldiers; whilst also routinely abusing Jews with the usual anti-semitic garbage (big noses for e.g).

(b) enthusiastically laying in to any poor Asian who crossed their path, who at the time kept themselves to themselves, and tended to meet racist attacks with desperate attempts to please the aggressors which just made things worse.

(c) profess a love of Trojan's Jamaican music, though from memory garbage like Judge Dread was always more popular here, and especially stuff like "Skinhead Moon Stomp" from which stomp was the usual term taken as the code for racial violence, rather than the later paki-bashing. At the same time of course, they were avid supporters of Enoch Powell - we like your music, but feck off back home.

It was also perfectly possible for the people taking part in those type of activities to have varying lengths of hair, but they did all seem to me to wear denim. Which is why when I see somebody wearing a pair of jeans, I have a prejudiced view about them that they are brainless thugs. The denim of delinquency IMO.

As I say, that's a pretty good representation of why I pretty much share NYC Fox's view about "lack of reason" when I see that logo - badge of shame IMO.

Hope that helps.

Yes, yes it does help. It's always good to know that somebody has ill-conceived preconceptions and prejudices about you, thanks.

 

[Blue Maniac]

Re: Nottingham Forest

That's needless pedantry - many nations either had their borders formed through geological luck, or through war or negotiation with their neighbors (both in most cases). But those who had their borders drawn for them, by external colonial powers, tend to have the most issues. Either because they feel they 'lost' land, or because they're forced to live as a minority within a border they don't agree with (Somalia, Eithiopia, Sudanm Iraq etc to name a few)

I think it was entirely necessary pedantry. You appeared to believe the 'artificial borders' situation was somehow unique to the Middle East. It's not.

Is it too late to expect you to contribute something meaningful to this thread?

I was about to ask you that.

Thousands of years of mistrust and hatred born from persecution are probably not going to be addressed with a couple of peace accords and a warm shandy. Besides, I was specifically addressing him comment that the persecution hadn't happened in that region. It had.

None of the events of the previous 100 years, 1000 years, 100 million years, are any excuse for the actions and attitude of the current state of Israel.

You think because their government is a reactionary intolerant despotic disgrace, the entire country (including its football team) should be labelled in that way? People like you are the reason issues like this can never be resolved. Congratulations.

Nope, I didn't say any of that at all. Neither did anyone else. So after all this, it appears you agree. Outstanding.

 

[NYC Fox]

Re: Nottingham Forest

Yes, yes it does help. It's always good to know that somebody has ill-conceived preconceptions and prejudices about you, thanks.

Like your comment 100 or so posts ago that kicked this off? If you're going to start an argument with some narrow-minded bigotry, you can't expect not to ignite it in someone else.

 

[NYC Fox]

Re: Nottingham Forest

I think it was entirely necessary pedantry. You appeared to believe the 'artificial borders' situation was somehow unique to the Middle East. It's not.

I didn't say it was unique, only that much of the strife in that region (much of it nothing at all to do with Israel) has been exacerbated by borders drawn by countries with entirely economic needs in mind, not the need of the people living within those borders.

None of the events of the previous 100 years, 1000 years, 100 million years, are any excuse for the actions and attitude of the current state of Israel.

I completely agree with that. I haven't excused their behaviour, I'm criticising one forum member for making an outlandish sweeping statement about an entire people and country, based on the cretinous foreign policy their government has pursued. And by the way, Israel has been responsible for far fewer deaths in that last decade or so (or in fact ever) than Britain or the USA. Maybe he (and you) should apply your vitriol to those countries too - I mean, all Brits must be murdering bastards right, because of Blair? All Americans too, because of Bush? Right? Or is your venom reserved for Jews only?

Nope, I didn't say any of that at all. Neither did anyone else. So after all this, it appears you agree. Outstanding.

Really? http://talkingballs.co.uk/showthrea...ot-in-Europe?p=1195844&viewfull=1#post1195844

 

[Blue Maniac]

Re: Nottingham Forest

I didn't say it was unique, only that much of the strife in that region (much of it nothing at all to do with Israel) has been exacerbated by borders drawn by countries with entirely economic needs in mind, not the need of the people living within those borders.

Quite agree with that.

I completely agree with that. I haven't excused their behaviour, I'm criticising one forum member for making an outlandish sweeping statement about an entire people and country, based on the cretinous foreign policy their government has pursued. And by the way, Israel has been responsible for far fewer deaths in that last decade or so (or in fact ever) than Britain or the USA. Maybe he (and you) should apply your vitriol to those countries too - I mean, all Brits must be murdering bastards right, because of Blair? All Americans too, because of Bush? Right? Or is your venom reserved for Jews only?

Again, none of the things said here are aimed at the man or woman in the street. It might interest you to know that we've seen plenty of Macky brand vitriol aimed towards UK and US governments past and present. I'd be inclined to agree with him there too.

Really? http://talkingballs.co.uk/showthrea...ot-in-Europe?p=1195844&viewfull=1#post1195844

I'm taking a leap of faith here, but that doesn't appear to me to be a description of the national football team.

 

[NYC Fox]

Re: Nottingham Forest

I'm taking a leap of faith here, but that doesn't appear to me to be a description of the national football team.

In the context, it seemed that way - and perhaps after my perhaps over-sized response, an easy out would have been for him to say exactly that.

Anyway, Forest won... they might make the playoffs after all.

 

[Blue Maniac]

Re: Nottingham Forest

Anyway, Forest won... they might make the playoffs after all.

Doesn't bother me to be honest, I'd quite like to see them in the Premier League. The more Midlands clubs the better.

 

[Macky]

Re: Nottingham Forest

I'm criticising one forum member for making an outlandish sweeping statement about an entire people and country, based on the cretinous foreign policy their government has pursued.

I wasn't referring to the entire population at all, my ire is entirely directed at the state, as I thought I'd made very clear. Evidently not, but I'm delighted that you agree with me.

Israel has been responsible for far fewer deaths in that last decade or so (or in fact ever) than Britain or the USA. Maybe he (and you) should apply your vitriol to those countries too - I mean, all Brits must be murdering bastards right, because of Blair? All Americans too, because of Bush? Right? Or is your venom reserved for Jews only?

You must be new around these parts. I guess you must be one of them there 'Murikans, judging by your avatar, and we don't take too kindly to your type around here

Anyway, Forest won... they might make the playoffs after all.

No going off-topic

 

[NYC Fox]

Re: Nottingham Forest

I wasn't referring to the entire population at all, my ire is entirely directed at the state, as I thought I'd made very clear. Evidently not, but I'm delighted that you agree with me.


You must be new around these parts. I guess you must be one of them there 'Murikans, judging by your avatar, and we don't take too kindly to your type around here


No going off-topic

Nah, I am 100% boring-as-hell not much history there, English... born and bred in nondescript Great Glen (well born in Harborough) and somehow ended up state-side about 10 years ago.

If I'd know there was such a lively political presence here, I'd have come more often!

 

[fox58]

http://www.pollingreport.com/israel.htm

 

[David Gwilliam]

Re: Nottingham Forest

not least because of their unfeasibly hot women soldiers;
.

Yes they were. Thank you Ike for the first interesting comment in this thread.