Loosing Faith??

[Redditch Fox]

Its a tricky question and because of that it will probably save CL for now. I dont care who is in charge along as its someone who can galvanise the team better as CL is proving about as inspirational as a wet lettuce.

I think the clue to this may be in another post somewhere in this forum in which a poster states that a director is alleged to have remarked that those who want Levein out will be disappointed this season.

I can believe that. My best guess is that those close to the club must suspect that Levein is a bit of a dud - sorry if that is too blunt, but the results and the indiscipline of the players all suggest that he hasn't got a grip. For a long time we heard that it was all about "gelling" - well, frankly, the more it gells the worse it gets. However, there is a cost issue.

I've thought for quite a time now that the best way forward is to trust that we don't get relegated and then try to move forward with a new manager at the end of the season. Obviously, if the odds begin to move towards us going down then that position needs to be reviewed. I also anticipate that some posts will shortly appear suggesting that relegation wouldn't be such a total disaster along with daft remarks about the chance of visiting new grounds etc.

 

[Graz]

I think the clue to this may be in another post somewhere in this forum in which a poster states that a director is alleged to have remarked that those who want Levein out will be disappointed this season.

I can believe that. My best guess is that those close to the club must suspect that Levein is a bit of a dud - sorry if that is too blunt, but the results and the indiscipline of the players all suggest that he hasn't got a grip. For a long time we heard that it was all about "gelling" - well, frankly, the more it gells the worse it gets. However, there is a cost issue.

I've thought for quite a time now that the best way forward is to trust that we don't get relegated and then try to move forward with a new manager at the end of the season. Obviously, if the odds begin to move towards us going down then that position needs to be reviewed. I also anticipate that some posts will shortly appear suggesting that relegation wouldn't be such a total disaster along with daft remarks about the chance of visiting new grounds etc.

I am almost starting to think actually that it will take us getting relegated to sort the club out maybe. Don't get me wrong, relegation IS a disaster, and I'm praying that it won't happen. However we've been in a downward spiral for pretty much the last 5 years, and it has to stop somewhere. I think maybe we'll get relegated to League 1, and then we'll have to build a more solid base and stuff and almost rebuild the club, then get back into this league and in a couple of years become a force in this league... Maybe..

I can't see us getting back to the Premiership for a long, long time, because at the minute we're in a constant catch 22. We can't afford to sack the manager despite form that probably deserves it, so we'll continue to get worse and therefore have less money, eventually have to get rid of the manager, which means less money to find a new manager and no money to give to him to spend, which means that he probably won't do as well as the fans expect him to either, and then we're back to having no money to sack the manager again...
I can definetely see us going down into League 1 before we can even realistically think about going back up!
Very bleak it seems.

 

[Durham Fox]

I am almost starting to think actually that it will take us getting relegated to sort the club out maybe. Don't get me wrong, relegation IS a disaster, and I'm praying that it won't happen. However we've been in a downward spiral for pretty much the last 5 years, and it has to stop somewhere.
I can't see us getting back to the Premiership for a long, long time, because at the minute we're in a constant catch 22. We can't afford to I think maybe we'll get relegated to League 1, and then we'll have to build a more solid base and stuff and almost rebuild the club, then get back into this league and in a couple of years become a force in this league... Maybe.. sack the manager despite form that probably deserves it, so we'll continue to get worse and therefore have less money, eventually have to get rid of the manager, which means less money to find a new manager and no money to give to him to spend, which means that he probably won't do as well as the fans expect him to either, and then we're back to having no money to sack the manager again...
I can definetely see us going down into League 1 before we can even realistically think about going back up!
Very bleak it seems.

I'm sorry but thats complete bollox. Go ask Forest.

 

[BlueThru&Thru]

I myself have lost confidence in CL. Like i've said before what is the difference in league position when MA left to where CL is now, nowhere!!
He comes across intelligent but yet he seems not where tactics are concerned.
He has also said himself (at the start of the season) if we are not in the playoff places by the end of the season then he's going to be sacked! (looks that way craigy boy) because at the moment he's taking us nowhere, and we all know it.
We can't keep sticking up for him, at the moment we've got nothing to be positive about.
Unless someone wants to tell me different?!?!

 

[PFKAKTF FOX]

If we get relegated to league 1, we will be lucky to have a club left. I think the Directors have to make a very brave decision, either publicly back the manager or get rid, there is an underlying tension within the club, will he or won't he, how long has he got left, can the club afford to sack him, can the club afford to keep him, if we are relegated then the chances of attracting a decent manager diminshes even further.

At the end of the day long term planning goes out the window if we are relegated. I still believe this club would be an attractive job within the managerial world, the club has got to do something as the current position is unacceptable.

My shortlist would be, and I would imagine many of these would be fairly cheap in terms of compensation and wages, also they would relish the opportunity of working at a club with our facilities and resources, just like the likes of Little, McGhee and O'Neill. I would like to see Martin George involved in the decision making, as he had a superb record of appointing new up and coming managers.

Martin Allen - Brentford
Dave Penney - Doncaster
Steve Cotterill - Burnley
Mark McGhee - Brighton
Billy Davies - Preston (He is on a 12 month rolling contract !)
Phil Parkinson - Colchester
Lawrie Sanchez - Northern Ireland
Brian Kerr - Unemployed


I still believe that there are a number of options available to us, who could come in and regalvanise the squad, it is always a risk when you change the manager, but there also has to come a time when the board are brave and realise that the change is necessary. I certainly do not buy into the appointing from within, Dublin isnt the answer and neither is Kelly, I would offer Kelly the opportunity to take over the academy, the rest I would allow to leave.

 

[Boy Genius]

I myself have lost confidence in CL. Like i've said before what is the difference in league position when MA left to where CL is now, nowhere!!
He comes across intelligent but yet he seems not where tactics are concerned.
He has also said himself (at the start of the season) if we are not in the playoff places by the end of the season then he's going to be sacked! (looks that way craigy boy) because at the moment he's taking us nowhere, and we all know it.
We can't keep sticking up for him, at the moment we've got nothing to be positive about.
Unless someone wants to tell me different?!?!

Thats bollux too, show us where he said that. A three year plan to get promoted is what is on, and you dont sell the manager after 6 months into it, thats why the board show no concern.
As for the position being no better than when MA left is utter bollux too. We may be in a lower postion but I would say if MA was here we would be bottom, as most of the players we had then were either on short term contracts, retired or just too old to play on.
CL has got the average age right down, the wage bill has come down too and to be honest the football being played is not too bad, the main problem is experience and they are gaining that all the time.
I dont want us to go through the bollux of getting a new manager, the club cannot afford it for one and a new bloke will want to rebuild a team, and that will be on a lower budget than at present because of compensation that has to be paid out in every direction.
They say football is about opinions, but I wish people would think about their opinions before spouting bollux.....:icon_evil

 

[highland fox]

We cannot afford to sack CL,pay him and Black and Houston up,then pay compensation to another Club when we take their Manager.The only time that will ever happen is if we look in serious danger of relegation with 10 matches to go.Like Redditch said I'd imagine CL's position will be 'reviewed' in the Summer.You can write a list of Mangers as long as your arm but the reality is it's either Craig Levein or an appointment from within the Club i.e Dublin or Kelly.....IMO

 

[Boy Genius]

Martin Allen - Brentford
Dave Penney - Doncaster
Steve Cotterill - Burnley
Mark McGhee - Brighton
Billy Davies - Preston (He is on a 12 month rolling contract !)
Phil Parkinson - Colchester
Lawrie Sanchez - Northern Ireland
Brian Kerr - Unemployed

If we need to replace CL, and I say if, this list of candidates above would be no better than we have, maybe Steve Cotterill at a push. Apart from Mark McGee and Billy Davies, non of these have had experience outside of the lower leagues and would be a bigger gamble than staying with CL. If we have to get a manager in I would think it would have to be somebody with a little bit more higher league experience. Would the club want Mcgee back and would Preston let Davies go, or would they want to come to a club where a couple of bad results and they get the moron fans on their backs

 

[PFKAKTF FOX]

We cannot afford to sack CL,pay him and Black and Houston up,then pay compensation to another Club when we take their Manager.The only time that will ever happen is if we look in serious danger of relegation with 10 matches to go.Like Redditch said I'd imagine CL's position will be 'reviewed' in the Summer.You can write a list of Mangers as long as your arm but the reality is it's either Craig Levein or an appointment from within the Club i.e Dublin or Kelly.....IMO

Good post H, I feel the board are going to have to make a brave move, maybe use the Connolly million to help finance it, but they can ill afford to see the club relegated by sitting back and taking the cheap option. I know we cannot gaurentee a successful appointment but we are in a position now where the next few weeks decisions could mould the future of our club, Levein as done ok in the transfer market, but has also made some mistakes, can the board allow what limited funds will be available to be spent by a manager who is at present proving himself to be not good enough, was this not the same mistake made with Taylor, when he was afforded the luxury of another summer of spending to then be sacked 8 games later.

Surely the opening of the transfer window will give us the indication of which way our board will go.

 

[Durham Fox]

I read an interview with Cl the other day where he said the board had been 'as good as gold' so far. Wonder how much longer that will last?

 

[PFKAKTF FOX]

If we need to replace CL, and I say if, this list of candidates above would be no better than we have, maybe Steve Cotterill at a push. Apart from Mark McGee and Billy Davies, non of these have had experience outside of the lower leagues and would be a bigger gamble than staying with CL. If we have to get a manager in I would think it would have to be somebody with a little bit more higher league experience. Would the club want Mcgee back and would Preston let Davies go, or would they want to come to a club where a couple of bad results and they get the moron fans on their backs

I was at the Preston game today due to family commitments, and one thing I will tell you is that fans are exactly the same whichever team they support, the Preston fans were groaning at every misplaced pass, they werent happy that they only drew with Sheff Weds, they have a scapegoat in Danny Dichio, be realistic, football fans are all the same. As for your comments on taking gambles, that I am afraid is football, there are no certainties and sacking Levein and appointing his replacement will be a risk, but we are 20th and so isnt it a big risk to keep Levein, he has done very little results wise to convince me he is any better than any of the above.

 

[Boy Genius]

I read an interview with Cl the other day where he said the board had been 'as good as gold' so far. Wonder how much longer that will last?

Till this time next season

 

[Durham Fox]

Till this time next season

Does that apply with relegation from this division?

 

[highland fox]

Good post H, I feel the board are going to have to make a brave move, maybe use the Connolly million to help finance it, but they can ill afford to see the club relegated by sitting back and taking the cheap option. I know we cannot gaurentee a successful appointment but we are in a position now where the next few weeks decisions could mould the future of our club, Levein as done ok in the transfer market, but has also made some mistakes, can the board allow what limited funds will be available to be spent by a manager who is at present proving himself to be not good enough, was this not the same mistake made with Taylor, when he was afforded the luxury of another summer of spending to then be sacked 8 games later.

Surely the opening of the transfer window will give us the indication of which way our board will go.

At this moment in time PFKA I don't think they have the option other than to continue with CL.The Connolly money I would imagine will be used to make up the shortfall in revenue lost because of the lower crowds.You can't just say to CL,Houston,Black etc 'Cheerio boys pity it didn't work out'' they are under contract So they will want paying up and add to that compensation for eg Martin Allen that Brentford would want.Yes Relegation would cost us more but to my knowledge no team have been relegated at Christmas(apart from Sunderland this year)I know everybody is pissed offf with us not winning,so am I,but its not as if we are getting 'tonked' 3-0,4-1 week in week out .

 

[Boy Genius]

I was at the Preston game today due to family commitments, and one thing I will tell you is that fans are exactly the same whichever team they support, the Preston fans were groaning at every misplaced pass, they werent happy that they only drew with Sheff Weds, they have a scapegoat in Danny Dichio, be realistic, football fans are all the same. As for your comments on taking gambles, that I am afraid is football, there are no certainties and sacking Levein and appointing his replacement will be a risk, but we are 20th and so isnt it a big risk to keep Levein, he has done very little results wise to convince me he is any better than any of the above.

Fair point to say the least, but CL has put a 3 year plan to the board, and so far it is on track. At no point has it been said we would be promoted this season, next season is the one to tell if things are going right.
Steve Coppell at Reading has done the same thing, he is now in his 2nd (or maybe 3rd)full season and things have gone well, but he had a rough time at the start. The gamble is staying with CL in this case.

 

[Boy Genius]

Does that apply with relegation from this division?

we aint going down...................... :icon_eek:

 

[highland fox]

I was at the Preston game today due to family commitments, and one thing I will tell you is that fans are exactly the same whichever team they support, the Preston fans were groaning at every misplaced pass, they werent happy that they only drew with Sheff Weds, they have a scapegoat in Danny Dichio, be realistic, football fans are all the same. As for your comments on taking gambles, that I am afraid is football, there are no certainties and sacking Levein and appointing his replacement will be a risk, but we are 20th and so isnt it a big risk to keep Levein, he has done very little results wise to convince me he is any better than any of the above.

Didn't we gamble before though and it nearly ended with there being no LCFC left for us to 'debate' ? We were left going 'cap in hand' to all and sundry If I remember rightly.

 

[PFKAKTF FOX]

Interestingly I read Rab's interview when he signed for us and he stated there was a genuine belief that the squad would be good enough to go up. So whilst we buy into this long term plan, please bear in mind that the manager and the squad believed promotion was a possibility, I didnt, but there is no way in this world with the budget, resources and squad available that we should be 5TH BOTTOM in this division, and I really cannot think of any justification for Levein staying on at this present moment. 5 wins all season in 24 league games is appalling and one win in the last 9 when we are supposedly playing better.

Then couple that with the news that Craig wants a striker, centre half and winger, yet no mention of a left back and too be honest my concerns intensify.

 

[Durham Fox]

we aint going down...................... :icon_eek:

When are people going accept we are in a relegation battle???

These words will come back to haunt people.

 

[highland fox]

Interestingly I read Rab's interview when he signed for us and he stated there was a genuine belief that the squad would be good enough to go up.

Along with virtually every other Championship player signed by a Club last Summer.With respect,he is going to say that isn't he?