Malta

[RHYDAL]

nah, it's your mum

My mum is a sheep. You really should be able to tell the difference.
For the record, her name really is Barbara.

 

[bocadillo]

My mum is a sheep.

Your mum is a Derby fan?

I always knew there was something odd about you.

 

[FryattFox]

In the same way, I'll happily argue that we should be using more renewable energy... and wait for the inevitable... I bet you drive a car, don't you? I bet you've been on a plane, haven't you? There! Ha! Caught you out!

It's the easiset and most boring point-scoring exercise ever. If you have one mild animal rights or environmental view, you have to live in a moss-covered yurt, knitting your own sustainable yoghurt to pull it off without being accused of hypocrisy.

I don't think it is that simple. Just because you can't change everything, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't do what you can. Obviously that's down to personal choice and everyone has their own morale code, I just believe that a lot of people need to take it further and are too detached from the effects of their lifestyle. The meat industry being a prime example.

And after all that, I still have no idea what this has to do with the illegal killing of migratory birds in the Mediterranean.

As I said to Macky, I apologise for getting the wrong end of the stick. I initially thought when I saw the bird comments that people were upset about the welfare of the birds, as opposed to the loss of specific species.

 

[FryattFox]

What???
You must be a complete cock if you believe that. Given a choice of expensive free range against cheaper reared food, most people would go for cost. Out of those people it is purely down to necessity, think of a single mother with 3 children to feed, how will she be able to afford free range stuff? Her shopping basket is usually full of home label and basic brands.

It shouldn't matter that some people would go for the cheaper option. There are plenty of examples of people who would buy cheaper items in any scenario, but it doesn't mean that it's right (sweatshops for example).

I think a lot of society are waking up to the realisation that the rearing of caged & battery fed chickens is wrong. Hence why supermarkets such as Sainsbury's have stopped selling battery hen eggs, and why government legislation is coming in in 2012 prohibiting caged hens in their current format.

But thanks for your input.

 

[Boy Genius]

It shouldn't matter that some people would go for the cheaper option. There are plenty of examples of people who would buy cheaper items in any scenario, but it doesn't mean that it's right (sweatshops for example).

I think a lot of society are waking up to the realisation that the rearing of caged & battery fed chickens is wrong. Hence why supermarkets such as Sainsbury's have stopped selling battery hen eggs, and why government legislation is coming in in 2012 prohibiting caged hens in their current format.

But thanks for your input.

they will find ways around that, there will always be animals being bred for meat in distressing situations. Barn reared hens are only marginally better off then caged battery hens, still not nice but it maybe the only way some people can afford eggs or chicken meat. Sainsbury's will gladly sell free range stuff, at a price, and no doubt make more money on that stuff. I dont think the same would apply to Netto and Aldi and the like.

 

[FryattFox]

they will find ways around that, there will always be animals being bred for meat in distressing situations. Barn reared hens are only marginally better off then caged battery hens, still not nice but it maybe the only way some people can afford eggs or chicken meat. Sainsbury's will gladly sell free range stuff, at a price, and no doubt make more money on that stuff. I dont think the same would apply to Netto and Aldi and the like.

Again, it shouldn't be the case that meat and eggs should be cheap just so that people can afford it.

I don't doubt that people will find a way around it, and given the current levels of legislation in regards to the welfare of most animals I doubt the government will do much about it in the near future. It doesn't make it right though.

I couldn't care less how much money and what the motivation is for Sainsbury's, etc., to stop selling caged chickens and eggs; at least they're not funding it.

 

[Boy Genius]

Again, it shouldn't be the case that meat and eggs should be cheap just so that people can afford it.

So again I will say, what about the single parent on a very low income or benefits with children to bring up, what do they buy then to feed themselves if everything is now free range and expensive. The children starve...... but hey the cows and chickens are happy.

You have never been in that situation have you?

 

[spionfox]

Again, it shouldn't be the case that meat and eggs should be cheap just so that people can afford it.

Is there a 'shaking head in disbelief' icon?

 

[FryattFox]

So again I will say, what about the single parent on a very low income or benefits with children to bring up, what do they buy then to feed themselves if everything is now free range and expensive. The children starve...... but hey the cows and chickens are happy.

You have never been in that situation have you?

Is there a 'shaking head in disbelief' icon?

Have either of you ever been to a supermarket? There are other food products in there. How do you think vegetarians survive? Saying that people will starve is ridiculous.

Meat used to be a luxury product, but in the current world it's considered a necessity. I'm not saying that's wrong, but it shouldn't be at the expense of the animals' welfare.

Do you use the same logic for other products? Would you be content with a lower income family buying clothes made in a 3rd world sweat-shop just because they have less money here?

 

[Darth Vodka]

So again I will say, what about the single parent on a very low income or benefits with children to bring up, what do they buy then to feed themselves if everything is now free range and expensive. The children starve...... but hey the cows and chickens are happy.

You have never been in that situation have you?

well if they're on benefits it won't be eggs, it will be turkey twizzlers, Stella and Lambert & Butler

:icon_wink

 

[MKFox]

Is there a 'shaking head in disbelief' icon?

Closest I can get...

 

[Boy Genius]

well if they're on benefits it won't be eggs, it will be turkey twizzlers, Stella and Lambert & Butler

:icon_wink

DV they are not all from Earl Shilton......:icon_bigg

 

[Boy Genius]

Have either of you ever been to a supermarket? There are other food products in there. How do you think vegetarians survive? Saying that people will starve is ridiculous.

Meat used to be a luxury product, but in the current world it's considered a necessity. I'm not saying that's wrong, but it shouldn't be at the expense of the animals' welfare.

Do you use the same logic for other products? Would you be content with a lower income family buying clothes made in a 3rd world sweat-shop just because they have less money here?

Well I would expect people on low income not to shop at Scotney's, but there again low price and cheaper quality clothes can be found in certain shops and markets.

 

[Boy Genius]

Have either of you ever been to a supermarket? There are other food products in there. How do you think vegetarians survive? Saying that people will starve is ridiculous.

So you are really saying that freedom of choice is taken away to keep a few cows and chickens happy? Deprive people of affordable meat.

Meat used to be a luxury product, but in the current world it's considered a necessity. I'm not saying that's wrong, but it shouldn't be at the expense of the animals' welfare.

How else can it be done then, even if you rear them in superb surroundings there will always be some stubborn little git who would be against it.
There are far far worse things to worry about in this world, than animal welfare. Get into priority.

 

[FryattFox]

How else can it be done then, even if you rear them in superb surroundings there will always be some stubborn little git who would be against it.

Just because there may always be critics, it's a ridiculous argument to suggest that we do nothing.

There are far far worse things to worry about in this world, than animal welfare. Get into priority.

I would be the first to agree that there are far worse things happening in this world. But who says that I do not hold those items in higher regard? I would argue that it's others that need to consider their priorities.

So you are really saying that freedom of choice is taken away to keep a few cows and chickens happy? Deprive people of affordable meat.

That's exactly what I'm saying. But let's not simplify it into something that it's not. This isn't keeping "a few cows and chickens happy". This is the choice to stop the suffering and painful existence of 16 billion animals in the US alone.

 

[FryattFox]

Closest I can get...

I reckon he'd probably more relate to something like this...


:icon_bigg

 

[Boy Genius]

That's exactly what I'm saying. But let's not simplify it into something that it's not. This isn't keeping "a few cows and chickens happy". This is the choice to stop the suffering and painful existence of 16 billion animals in the US alone.

While we are at it then, lets take the vote away, lets take freedom of speech away..... that would be lovely.

16 Billion, you making numbers up now?

Anyway if that is the figure, thats the figure. Keeping a few cows and chickens happy as I said.

 

[FryattFox]

While we are at it then, lets take the vote away, lets take freedom of speech away..... that would be lovely.

I'm not sure what your point is here? Surely that's the exact opposite of this very thread?!

16 Billion, you making numbers up now?

Anyway if that is the figure, thats the figure. Keeping a few cows and chickens happy as I said.

It's a number that I've seen quoted. It may be higher, it may be lower. It's certainly billions though, and tens of billions worldwide.

And in a recent survey 7% of these died without even being slaughtered. And I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't have been because of old age...

Clearly you're happy either remaining ignorant or not caring though. And that's your free choice.

 

[MKFox]

nice to hear a bit of passion from a veggie, I gave up trying to influence what people ate years ago. Fair play FF!

 

[Mawsley]

I care less about the happiness of a cow than I do Joe Mattock's injury.

The cow is bred to be steak and burgers.