Preston 1 Leicester 1

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Having seen the highlights, Bamba went for a legitimate header, but Hobbs was nowhere near his position or else he'd have been marking Hume.

Once again I ask those who say he will be a liability, especially those who made that judgement based on 5 seconds of highlights, why do they think that?
 
I love it when people who think they know enough about football tactics because they know what formations are try to show their "tactical astuteness" by saying we should play a certain formation, regardless of who the opposition are and how they are set up during that particular game. Then also ignoring the hundreds of other aspects that make up tactical play that aren't simply rough ideas about where the players stand (and no mention about whether that's where they stand with or without the ball or regardless).

Especially when they think their opinion is more correct that our managers, who happens to be one of the most important, thorough and renowned tacticians of the past 30 years.
Don't even get me started...
 
It's rather humorous really. Am I allowed a plug here? :icon_lol: (Delete if you wish mods), but here's an article I wrote on my general annoyance with people's obsession with formation for a short-lived football blog I was doing with a couple of other people last year.

http://latrequartista.wordpress.com...formation-over-emphasised-in-the-modern-game/

Is the Importance of Formation Over-Emphasised in the Modern Game?

Amongst both the media and the fans in the terraces it’s becoming more and more common to hear debate regarding formation: “4-3-3 is more fluid; 4-4-2 is outdated”, “ but 4-4-2 gives the side more balance”, but can we really deduce such things from formation? Certainly such sweeping generalisations seem wide of the mark, as, for example, most would consider the 4-4-2 formation Spain played during the majority of Euro2008 to be a more fluid style than the 4-3-3 style José Mourinho has become known for at Porto, Chelsea and Inter.

In reality, formation tells us very little about a team’s style of play. It tells us nothing, for example, about how direct or patient the team is or a team’s marking style or whether a team plays a high or deep defensive line or whether a team prefers to press high up the pitch or stand-off the opposition when not in possession of the ball or the team’s basic mentality etc. etc. Another thing it fails to tell us is how these teams actually line-up in different stages of the match. It’s all well and good labelling teams with certain formations before kick-off, but the differences in the shape of two teams of the same formation when, for example, not in possession of the ball can be great. One team may chose to drop a player back while defending, briefly turning midfielders into defensive midfielders, or even centre-backs. Whereas another may chose to attack the team in possession with a high pressing game. Similarly, the team in possession may decide to briefly turn midfielders into attacking midfielders or full-backs into wingers, maybe not even due to the intentions of the manager, but on a whim from the player himself.

The fluidity of the modern game also means many of these formations have become blurred and distorted anyway. The line-up of the midfield in particular has become far more sophisticated in the modern game with the line of what constitutes as a midfielder or a defender or a midfielder or an attacker becoming increasingly blurred. Wingers have become increasingly interchangeable in regards to being categorised as either a midfielder or a forward for example. Teams’ shape nowadays is far too complex to assign arbitrary numbers to 3 different supposed rows of players. What counts as 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3 anyway? 4-2-3-1 can be identical to a 4-3-3, bar one central midfielder standing slightly further forward as lining up for kick-off, and 4-3-3 and 4-5-1 are often exactly the same thing, yet many will still praise teams for playing 4-3-3 for being an inherently attacking formation and ridicule teams for playing apparently an apparently “negative” 4-5-1 style. Again to use the example of Spain; the formation they used in the final of Euro2008, shifting from their usual 4-4-2 due to an injury to David Villa, was a pretty standard 4-5-1 formation, even with the use a holding midfielder. The exact type of formation many would deride as “negative” and “anti-football,” despite the fluidity of Spain’s play on the pitch. Categorising formation seems to have become virtually worthless.

It’s true that previously unknown formation changes in the past have led to success. Alf Ramsey’s 4-1-3-2 system, the precursor to the modern 4-4-2 led England to World Cup victory in 1966 and similarly, 20 years later Carlos Bilardo’s (pictured below, alongside Diego Maradona) revolutionary 3-5-2 formation, which popularised the usage of “wing-backs” helped lead Argentina to glory in the same competition in 1986. Though, while this change in style of play almost certainly played its part in helping leaf both sides to victory in those tournaments, it may not have been down to the simple changing of player position. As Bobby Charlton remarked after England had gone to then European champions Spain in a friendly and won 2-0 in the lead up to the 1966 World Cup: “The Spanish fullbacks were just looking at each other while we were going in droves through the middle.” It was England’s continual play through the centre of the park and rarity of them playing the ball out wide that flummoxed defenders, as their opposition were set up expecting players to be bombing up and down the wing. It was not so much simply being different in terms where the players stood in relation to each other, but rather how this was exploited and used to effect. Another advantage of course was simply how their new style had not been analysed by opposition managers yet, an advantage that is probably non-existent in the modern game due to the sophisticated tactical analysis computer programmes around today.



One other thing of course was that both sides had good players. Contrary to the popular myth, Argentina were far from a one man team in 1986. This is a team who conceded just 3 goals before the final, so it’s hard then to place all their importance on one player, particularly an attacking one. Wing-back Sergio Bastista has become a legendary name at Argentinos Juniors for his defensive capabilities and Nery Pumpido’s inch perfect passing became essential to the team’s quick counter attacking style, and yes, they had Diego Maradona in their side too. Whereas that England side had one of the meanest defences in World Cup history, not conceding a single goal from open play until the final.

It’s all well and good categorising 4-3-3 as being more “fluid” or “expressive” than 4-4-2, but if it’s a 4-3-3 formation made up of a team of Emile Heskey’s, compared to a team made up of Lionel Messi’s, you can guarantee it won’t be. It’s the players in those formations and the style in which they are built around that make those formations work or not, not the formations themselves.
 
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Getting back to the game (good article as it is PR), I thought our defence was far too reliant on the fact Preston's front line lacked any real discipline and was regularly caught offside. Even I looked for the flag when Hume ran in on goal.

Preston were a very poor side, and we had our chances to kill the game off. It's been alluded to earlier in the thread, but we need to be more ruthless, especially against teams like this.

For the record, I was at the game ;)
 
I love it when people who think they know enough about football tactics because they know what formations are try to show their "tactical astuteness" by saying we should play a certain formation, regardless of who the opposition are and how they are set up during that particular game. Then also ignoring the hundreds of other aspects that make up tactical play that aren't simply rough ideas about where the players stand (and no mention about whether that's where they stand with or without the ball or regardless).

Especially when they think their opinion is more correct that our managers, who happens to be one of the most important, thorough and renowned tacticians of the past 30 years.

So what are football forums for?:102:

My opinion is that Sven has got Yakubu in as a strike partner for Vassell....in what way is that undermining Sven.
 
So what are football forums for?:102:

My opinion is that Sven has got Yakubu in as a strike partner for Vassell....in what way is that undermining Sven.

Sven has already said in interviews we don't have the players to play with a 4 man midfield.

And yes, your opinion is that the only way we could possibly make the play-offs was to give the players arbitrary standing positions and give them those positions for every game til the end of the season, regardless of how the opposition are set up and regardless of who they are. I wasn't saying your opinion wasn't valid (what is this "So what are football forums for?" all about, I never mentioned anything about the validity of opinions or what football forums are for), I was just pointing out how absurd your analysis and opinion were.
 
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Okay, I saw this in all last week's stuff. You've brought it up.

I own an academy, lots of people work here, there's a computer. If you'd ever bothered to study, or see anything other than sunny Leicestershire, then you too would understand that there's a world out there. The snobbery in the postings was sickening; anyone who'd lived above a language academy was a 'gimp'. Some - not all - of you treat newcomers as if they're all idiots, you're scared of the outsiders, but the kids who work with me have achieved something you'll never come close to. They've had the bravery to leave that industrial wasteland you call home. While you're festering in your own faeces they've actually got up and gone somewhere.

I enjoyed the exchanges a couple of weeks ago, a bit snipey but quite fun from my point of view. Today I wanted to talk about the game, which I couldn't see. But it's come back down to this. If you honestly think I care about what people from the shallow end of the gene pool think, people dumb enough to believe that old men with shoulder pads sit down and invent duplicate personalities, then you're gravely mistaken, there are bigger things on my mind. And of course I don't have an alter-ego. I can outwit prats like you by myself. And effortlessly.

And yeah, I saw the post which said 'new people shouldn't come in and start throwing their weight about'. This isn't a pub, idiot, you're publishing everything you say. When I want to speak to my friends I call them. And, for what it's worth, if I walked into your local I'd still call you a half-wit.

Excellent. As I'm such a half wit could you please let me know since when has Newcastle upon Tyne been in 'sunny Leicestershire'? As for the getting up and heading abroad, already been there and done that.
 
Sven has already said in interviews we don't have the players to play with a 4 man midfield.

And yes, your opinion is that the only way we could possibly make the play-offs was to give the players arbitrary standing positions and give them those positions for every game til the end of the season, regardless of how the opposition are set up and regardless of who they are. I wasn't saying your opinion wasn't valid (what is this "So what are football forums for?" all about, I never mentioned anything about the validity of opinions or what football forums are for), I was just pointing out how absurd your analysis and opinion were.

I am well aware that Sven has said he does not have the players for a 4-4-2,and yes i put my hands up and say i worded it wrong in my other post.

But i sense the reason he has brought Yakubu in is that he is going to change the system,if he sticks to 4-3-3 were does Vassell fit in?we have tried Vassell and Yuki out on the right and it did not work.

We played 4-4-2 last season with Oakley ,king,Wellens and Dyer as the midfield unit....so to say we cannot play that way does not add up.

But hey what do i know?
 
As usual it was same old Leicester, cannot put there chances away,so if we have any chance of the playoffs we have to play 4-4-2 with Yakubu and Vassell leading the line,that strike force would put the fear in any side.

Ruthless game as it is Yuki Abe would have to give way,not his fault but he would have to be sacrificed as we are not going to drop Andy King.

Not being a master tactician with the 30 years experience that Sven has, but here goes.

I think what you said is bollux!

I am confident that Sven sees Yakubu and Vassell as a potent strike force, but that does not mean Vassell has to be alongside Yakubu in a -2. Feed the Yak simply means feed the ball to him in a bit of space in the 18 yard box and let him do the business.

I am very confident that Sven would not consider a -4 of say Dyer, King, Wellens and Oakley.

Sven knows that his best 6 players in front of defence are Abe, King, Wellens, Gallagher, Vassell and Yakubu.

I am certain they will always be his first choice. How they line up and play off each other will depend on Sven's analysis of the opposition for each match.
 
It's rather humorous really. Am I allowed a plug here? :icon_lol: (Delete if you wish mods), but here's an article I wrote on my general annoyance with people's obsession with formation for a short-lived football blog I was doing with a couple of other people last year.

http://latrequartista.wordpress.com...formation-over-emphasised-in-the-modern-game/

Excellent article PR. Pundits & journos have become obsessed with formation because it's a lazy way of explaining things, which perhaps explains why so few pundits have actually succeeded in management, and this seems to have filtered down to the fans as a sort of holy grail. The beauty of football is that it is essentially a simple game; play to your strengths when attacking, counter the opposition's strengths when defending and hope for the best.
 
go on www.zonalmarking.net Profondo Rosso. I suspect you will cream your pants

Yeah, I go there quite a bit. The guy is an Arsenal fan and prone to leaving out certain counter-arguments to fit his ideas, but it's a really refreshing site compared to most of the mundane football analysis we get in the press.
 
Ok, I haven't read many of the posts of this article - mainly because I couldn't be bothered but this is the first time I've been on here since I got back from Preston last night. :icon_bigg

First half, very slow start yet again. We just can't seem to start on the front foot & keep it on the front foot for the first 10 minutes. Dyer missed a one on one & should definitely have scored. Gallagher was really unlucky with his free kick, had Lonergan beaten all ends up. At the back we looked solid, Bamba was winning everything in the air, so much that Hume was doing his nut. It always looked like we were trying to pass it out of defence too often & this would be our downfall. Preston, never really threatened first half & if we could take our chances it could've easily been a lead, at the very least, for Leicester at the end of the half.

Second half, we passed the ball lovely. Too much though at times for my liking, Yuki, King, Wellens, Gallagher - someone please just shoot! We finally took the lead through the Yak, neat finish & he looked threatening throughout, but incredibly lazy. It always looked like we would need a second goal. After we scored, it was pass the ball around and take the p**s cause we thought we had the game sealed at 1-0. It backfired on us, Hume took his goal well. I can't decide whether to blame Hobbs as following his man 30 yards out of position seemed a little naive to me, had he just stayed there then surely the chance wouldn't have materialised. Then King, after Hume scored, simply must score, it was a golden chance to nick it at the end.

Overall, we seemed to think the game finished at 1-0 & if we passed it round for long enough outside the box, the ball would somehow end up in the net. Yakubu looks lazy, but a class act on the ball, he can pick a pass & I think with better service to him he could rip this league apart. Weale was solid again, made a few crucial saves. Man of match for me though - Sol Bamba. Never really looked threatened, looks calm & collected when in possession for a guy that is 6ft 3'.

Two points dropped, definitely. :thumbs_do
 
Okay, I saw this in all last week's stuff. You've brought it up.

I own an academy, lots of people work here, there's a computer. If you'd ever bothered to study, or see anything other than sunny Leicestershire, then you too would understand that there's a world out there. The snobbery in the postings was sickening; anyone who'd lived above a language academy was a 'gimp'. Some - not all - of you treat newcomers as if they're all idiots, you're scared of the outsiders, but the kids who work with me have achieved something you'll never come close to. They've had the bravery to leave that industrial wasteland you call home. While you're festering in your own faeces they've actually got up and gone somewhere.

I enjoyed the exchanges a couple of weeks ago, a bit snipey but quite fun from my point of view. Today I wanted to talk about the game, which I couldn't see. But it's come back down to this. If you honestly think I care about what people from the shallow end of the gene pool think, people dumb enough to believe that old men with shoulder pads sit down and invent duplicate personalities, then you're gravely mistaken, there are bigger things on my mind. And of course I don't have an alter-ego. I can outwit prats like you by myself. And effortlessly.

And yeah, I saw the post which said 'new people shouldn't come in and start throwing their weight about'. This isn't a pub, idiot, you're publishing everything you say. When I want to speak to my friends I call them. And, for what it's worth, if I walked into your local I'd still call you a half-wit.


Hmm...I came here to read about the game & people's opinions on it.But this post intrigues me as I didnt have the foggiest nation what it was referring to!
Sounds intersting though.
Anyone care to enlighten me?
 
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