To be, or not to be? The Shakespeare thread.
- Thread starter pork pie fox
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Feriol
Well-Known Member
The concern over Shakespeare is very much performance related. After a short spell in which he managed to get the needed results out of the players the performances declined quite quickly back to how they were for most of last season. (That includes the end of last season not just this)
I think if we are to get our title winning players back to anything like their best we need a stronger character.
I also think we need to adapt our style of play and develop a plan B, and Shakespeare has shown no intention or ability to that.
The changes he makes during games indicate he doesn't understand why things are going wrong or how to counter opponents.
Shakespeare's comments on any transfer related matters is usually that he doesn't know, which suggest that he isn't trusted to be involved. While it may not be Shakespeare's fault I think the club needs someone with a clear vision to direct a transfer policy.
While we will learn more in the coming weeks, given his relationship with certain players I doubt his ability to effectively integrate our new signings into the team.
I don't think that he should be sacked now, but I am frustrated that an excellent opportunity for our club to push on and capitalize on recent success has been entrusted to an inexperienced friend of the players. I also dread the effects of a mid season sacking of their friend on the players attitude. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that, but so far Shakespeare has only confirmed by doubts. Let's hope he learns quickly.
I think if we are to get our title winning players back to anything like their best we need a stronger character.
I also think we need to adapt our style of play and develop a plan B, and Shakespeare has shown no intention or ability to that.
The changes he makes during games indicate he doesn't understand why things are going wrong or how to counter opponents.
Shakespeare's comments on any transfer related matters is usually that he doesn't know, which suggest that he isn't trusted to be involved. While it may not be Shakespeare's fault I think the club needs someone with a clear vision to direct a transfer policy.
While we will learn more in the coming weeks, given his relationship with certain players I doubt his ability to effectively integrate our new signings into the team.
I don't think that he should be sacked now, but I am frustrated that an excellent opportunity for our club to push on and capitalize on recent success has been entrusted to an inexperienced friend of the players. I also dread the effects of a mid season sacking of their friend on the players attitude. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that, but so far Shakespeare has only confirmed by doubts. Let's hope he learns quickly.
Mike - True Blue Tinter
Well-Known Member
When our team were going through highs and lows under Pearson and Ranieri, I cannot imagine that Shakey was sat in a shed at Belvoir Drive oblivious to what was going on. To say he does not have a clue about how to get players to respond or adapt is frankly insulting to the guy.
As for Plan B, he has been limited so far with injuries to new players coming in, and some people forget that both Vardy and Mahrez were somewhat less than amazing for their first 12 months at the club, so I think it is wrong to suggest that a signing from outside the EPL is crap, simply because they did not adapt instantly to the pace and style of the English game.
All our recent managers have commented 'don't know' to transfer questions. That is club policy to say nothing until a deal is done. It does not mean they are not in the loop in terms of suggesting who the targets should be. I think Sven was the only manager in recent times to be let loose alone with the company credit card in the footballing equivalent of Tescos.
As for subs, again he has been limited with injuries and wanting to protect players. Many people suggested Okazaki should have started. Some, astonishingly, think he should never start! Maybe it was an inspired substitution, to bring 'shock and awe' into the games. We certainly took control from then on and Liverpool could find no way back.
I can see why it is easy to suggest that an assistant manager is too 'matey' with the players to earn enough respect as the 'guvnor', but Shakey has been there through all the dark days with Pearson. I am certain he knows which buttons to press to get the players responding in the way he would like. Just take a player like Morgan. It would be very easy for him to go into 'cruise' mode on his big contract as he nears the end of his top-level playing career, but he is playing as well now as he was 2 years ago.
I think Shakey deserves more time, and more respect from some fans, to show us how good a manager he can be when he has his full fit squad available.
As for Plan B, he has been limited so far with injuries to new players coming in, and some people forget that both Vardy and Mahrez were somewhat less than amazing for their first 12 months at the club, so I think it is wrong to suggest that a signing from outside the EPL is crap, simply because they did not adapt instantly to the pace and style of the English game.
All our recent managers have commented 'don't know' to transfer questions. That is club policy to say nothing until a deal is done. It does not mean they are not in the loop in terms of suggesting who the targets should be. I think Sven was the only manager in recent times to be let loose alone with the company credit card in the footballing equivalent of Tescos.
As for subs, again he has been limited with injuries and wanting to protect players. Many people suggested Okazaki should have started. Some, astonishingly, think he should never start! Maybe it was an inspired substitution, to bring 'shock and awe' into the games. We certainly took control from then on and Liverpool could find no way back.
I can see why it is easy to suggest that an assistant manager is too 'matey' with the players to earn enough respect as the 'guvnor', but Shakey has been there through all the dark days with Pearson. I am certain he knows which buttons to press to get the players responding in the way he would like. Just take a player like Morgan. It would be very easy for him to go into 'cruise' mode on his big contract as he nears the end of his top-level playing career, but he is playing as well now as he was 2 years ago.
I think Shakey deserves more time, and more respect from some fans, to show us how good a manager he can be when he has his full fit squad available.
Graz
Well-Known Member
I think the talk of Shakespeare having no Plan B is inaccurate too.
I think he's already shown, in a short time, that he's willing to adapt the system.
I know it's one game, but in the home leg against Atletico his switch to 3-5-2 massively changed the game and was a great move.
He's already adapted to 4-3-3 during games this season.
Just because he's playing 4-4-2 doesn't mean he has no Plan B...
I think he's already shown, in a short time, that he's willing to adapt the system.
I know it's one game, but in the home leg against Atletico his switch to 3-5-2 massively changed the game and was a great move.
He's already adapted to 4-3-3 during games this season.
Just because he's playing 4-4-2 doesn't mean he has no Plan B...
David Gwilliam
Well-Known Member
I would be interested to know what members would consider a good season. under CS or some hypothetical manager.
There was a time e.g. under Micky Adams when surviving in the Premier League would have been success. The club has moved on. I think being in the relegation dogfight at the end of the season would be bad even if we survived.
On the other hand there was a reason why the 2015-2016 season was seen as a miracle. We are not able to attract the very best players in the way that the Manchester clubs or some London clubs can.
For me a top ten finish would be a good season.
There was a time e.g. under Micky Adams when surviving in the Premier League would have been success. The club has moved on. I think being in the relegation dogfight at the end of the season would be bad even if we survived.
On the other hand there was a reason why the 2015-2016 season was seen as a miracle. We are not able to attract the very best players in the way that the Manchester clubs or some London clubs can.
For me a top ten finish would be a good season.
We are 17th, and only out of the relegation zone on goal difference - we are already battling relegation. Still, nobody actually gets relegated in September (or even at the end of December) - do they?
camberwell fox
Well-Known Member
Halfway or above David in my opinion.
Realistically there are quite a few clubs historically and even recently that we would 'expect' not to finish above:
In no particular order:
Man U
Man City
Tottenham
Liverpool
Chelsea
Arsenal
Everton
Realistically therefore in a 'status quo' season 13 places divide the rest.
I would expect us to finish above the three promoted teams along with:
Palace
West Brom
Bournemouth
Stoke
Burnley
Watford
That leaves 4 places including us.
A crap season and we mix it with the second group and a good season sees us mix it with the first group.
Unfortunately 'that season' has clouded a lot of people's realistic expectations I think.
Lako42
Well-Known Member
It hasn't clouded mine, the current level of performance, results and decision making is below what I expect of a club like ours.
Still, I'm not entirely sure why we should be expected to forget that season? It happened, and should be taken as seriously as the other seasons since we came up.
Battling relegation for a club of our current stature is below what we should expect.
Still, I'm not entirely sure why we should be expected to forget that season? It happened, and should be taken as seriously as the other seasons since we came up.
Battling relegation for a club of our current stature is below what we should expect.
camberwell fox
Well-Known Member
Not forget Lako, not even slightly, but at least realise - no matter how uncomfortable, that it probably was a beautiful blip.
We should be doing better but we have played 7 games and without our preferred personnel.
Judge the guy at 19 games into the season - give him a chance.
We have played so much better than the first 30 or so games last season.
Redditch Fox
Well-Known Member
Doubt if Shakespeare is the right manager for Leicester City and I doubt whether other members of the management structure are right either.
That is the easy bit - the challenge is finding and appointing replacements who match the owners' ambitions.
I can't imagine that they are in anyway satisfied with the state of things or that they will put up with them much longer.
That is the easy bit - the challenge is finding and appointing replacements who match the owners' ambitions.
I can't imagine that they are in anyway satisfied with the state of things or that they will put up with them much longer.
Brown Nose
Well-Known Member
The Mercury says that this is our worst start to a Premier League season.
I don't buy the 'tough fixtures' excuses. There was no better time to play Arsenal than we did. Ditto Liverpool. We played against both Man Utd and Chelsea like we'd got an inferiority complex and just expected them to roll us over. We were garbage at Huddersfield. I wasn't expecting to win those games necessarily but I was expecting more points and better performances.
Although we pay 'top eight' wages and transfer fees, we've been poor for some time and there is no reason I can see why we're going to improve. We've spent a fortune putting together an enormous squad that doesn't appear to include players that can pass the ball to a team mate or defend. We have a clique that run the place and a staff stuck in the past. We then have owners that don't appear to have the first clue what to do about it all.
The odds on us going down remain ludicrously long. I advise anyone to have a punt as insurance as this isn't going to be an easy season. I've seen nothing to give me any confidence at all. Do you really see us going to Bournemouth and winning in our current state because I don't?
We have two excellent players - Vardy and Mahrez - several that can be excellent on their day - Schmeichel, Morgan, Simpson, Albrighton, Huth, Fuchs, Okazaki - and a load of players that flatter to deceive or are just not reliable.
And we have a manager who isn't a manager and never will be a manager. He's an impersonator. He's trying his best to cajole players to perform like an old band on the road trotting out hits from years ago. The faces are the same and the notes seem the same but it isn't really the same at all.
Somebody at the club has to take a grip of the situation and start leading. The void that exists in that regard since we won the league is extraordinary. We needed a strong, progressive manager to come in during the summer.
We're doing the whole Martin O'Neill to Peter Taylor thing all over again and it's heartbreaking.
I don't buy the 'tough fixtures' excuses. There was no better time to play Arsenal than we did. Ditto Liverpool. We played against both Man Utd and Chelsea like we'd got an inferiority complex and just expected them to roll us over. We were garbage at Huddersfield. I wasn't expecting to win those games necessarily but I was expecting more points and better performances.
Although we pay 'top eight' wages and transfer fees, we've been poor for some time and there is no reason I can see why we're going to improve. We've spent a fortune putting together an enormous squad that doesn't appear to include players that can pass the ball to a team mate or defend. We have a clique that run the place and a staff stuck in the past. We then have owners that don't appear to have the first clue what to do about it all.
The odds on us going down remain ludicrously long. I advise anyone to have a punt as insurance as this isn't going to be an easy season. I've seen nothing to give me any confidence at all. Do you really see us going to Bournemouth and winning in our current state because I don't?
We have two excellent players - Vardy and Mahrez - several that can be excellent on their day - Schmeichel, Morgan, Simpson, Albrighton, Huth, Fuchs, Okazaki - and a load of players that flatter to deceive or are just not reliable.
And we have a manager who isn't a manager and never will be a manager. He's an impersonator. He's trying his best to cajole players to perform like an old band on the road trotting out hits from years ago. The faces are the same and the notes seem the same but it isn't really the same at all.
Somebody at the club has to take a grip of the situation and start leading. The void that exists in that regard since we won the league is extraordinary. We needed a strong, progressive manager to come in during the summer.
We're doing the whole Martin O'Neill to Peter Taylor thing all over again and it's heartbreaking.
deleted member
Banned
So if I win the lottery on Saturday I should keep playing as i'm likely to win again ?
Everyone saw the odds of Leicester to win the league, lets be honest we were fortunate of underachieving top clubs AND had a system that premier league clubs could not compete against AND the best player Midfielder in the League AND the most of form winger in the league.
Thinking that a team isn't going to adjust and learn to play against us and expecting a substandard set of players to achieve anything than Mid table this year with all the money spent with other clubs is just ridiculous.
Too many people expecting too much of a bottom/mid table club, lets be honest 4 seasons ago we were in the championship with most of the key players we have now, 3 seasons ago with pretty much the same squad we barely survived relegation. We have to be realistic......talk about this 6 weeks and we are still in the same position i will 100% agree this is turning out to be a disaster, but until then and 6 games in, then there should not be a concern...We are 6 points from 4th....cmooonn
City Fan
Well-Known Member
I stopped reading when you compared our title win to a lottery.
deleted member
Banned
Hugh Hefner to admit he's a virgin: 1000/1
Simon Cowell to be next Prime Minister: 500/1
Elvis Presley being discovered alive 2000/1
City Fan
Well-Known Member
Just because the bookies got it wrong, it doesn’t mean it was an absolute fluke. We deservedly won it.
deleted member
Banned
Didn't say we didn't deserve it. We played some outstanding football, but it was also a combination of many things. I just don't think we can expect to play that kind of football this season
City Fan
Well-Known Member
But you compared it to a lottery win...?
A game of complete chance, with some lucky ****er somehow managing to win it undeservingly.
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