What have you achieved today?

[tedfoxxx]

Don't think it ever 'turns off' Teddy, it's just heightened for young children.
We're all naturally polyglots.
If you ever find yourself in a foreign country for an extended period of time where nobody else speaks English, you'll be speaking like a native in a matter of months.

Well then surely that conforms to the more behaviourist theory of immitation/reinforcement?

 

[Innocent]

Thats quite an interesting case actually seeing as the language acquisition devise is supposed to turn off at around age 7 (I THINK).

Nope. Just another myth.

Some kids have oral dyspraxia, and it doesn't sort itself out quickly or maybe ever, and may affect the muscaluture in speech. Some kids can't be bothered because they assume everyone can naturally read their minds. My fave story is of a non-verbal autistic who at the age of ten suddenly said ,'Pass me the salt please'. His family was in pieces, and shock. It was the first thing he'd ever said, and mind-blowing.

Dad said, 'We thought you couldn't talk. How did you say that and why?'

Kid said, 'I never had to ask for anything before. You just always gave it to me.'

That's so brilliantly and perfectly autistic.

 

[Macky]

Well then surely that conforms to the more behaviourist theory of immitation/reinforcement?

Possibly Ted, possibly, but I think it's more of an innate cognitive device.

 

[Innocent]

Well then surely that conforms to the more behaviourist theory of immitation/reinforcement?

Not behaviourist. It's to do with mirror neurons, and their weak long-range connectivity to the sensory modalities which are over-wired.

Behaviourism hasn't got a whole lot to say about autism, because it by-passes the mind/brain and therefore takes no notice of neuroscience. Behaviourism is pretty crude, but works on a basic level. However the way it is being touted in autism is quack science, and largely discredited. Some parents still believe in ABA/EIBI.

It's usually tosh.

It's sad.

 

[tedfoxxx]

Nope. Just another myth.

Some kids have oral dyspraxia, and it doesn't sort itself out quickly or maybe ever, and may affect the muscaluture in speech. Some kids can't be bothered because they assume everyone can naturally read their minds. My fave story is of a non-verbal autistic who at the age of ten suddenly said ,'Pass me the salt please'. His family was in pieces, and shock. It was the first thing he'd ever said, and mind-blowing.

Dad said, 'We thought you couldn't talk. How did you say that and why?'

Kid said, 'I never had to ask for anything before. You just always gave it to me.'

That's so brilliantly and perfectly autistic.

Incredible, that basically puts bollocks to what i'm taught in english language - if its true. I know i've only been learning about language acquisition for about 8 months but I find it interesting that i'm never told about these occurances.

 

[Innocent]

Possibly Ted, possibly, but I think it's more of an innate cognitive device.

You know summat about this, don't you, Macky? Mirror neurons?

Dark horse, red braces.

 

[Macky]

You know summat about this, don't you, Macky? Mirror neurons?

Dark horse, red braces.

It always pays to know a little bit about lots of things, than a lot about one subject. :icon_wink

 

[tedfoxxx]

It always pays to know a little bit about lots of things, than a lot about one subject. :icon_wink

Any more child language acquisition nuggets you can fire off before I fail my exam miserably?

 

[Macky]

Any more child language acquisition nuggets you can fire off before I fail my exam miserably?

The golden rule, if they don't learn their catechism verbatim, thrash them to within an inch of their lives.
The little ****ers will soon learn.

It's called the 'Christian Brothers methodology'.

 

[tedfoxxx]

The golden rule, if they don't learn their catechism verbatim, thrash them to within an inch of their lives.
The little ****ers will soon learn.

It's called the 'Christian Brothers methodology'.

Its official, i'm ****ed. Thanks anyway Mackaldinho.

 

[Innocent]

Incredible, that basically puts bollocks to what i'm taught in english language - if its true. I know i've only been learning about language acquisition for about 8 months but I find it interesting that i'm never told about these occurances.

Tedd, I taught linguistics for many years. Sadly those who now teach you are relying on what they learned years ago.

Right, here's the deal. We all have these mirror neurons in our brains. They're like little wing mirrors on lollipop sticks. They do amazing things, and it's all tied up to the motor cortex. If our brain is perfectly wired, when we SEE someone doing something, the mirror neurons immediately make that action happen inside our own brain. NOT ONLY THAT, but they also enable us to 'feel' how it feels, not only on a tactile level but also on an emotional level.

Mirror neurons are the most miraculous-short cut we have to understanding doing and feeling, and also to language acquisition which is also a feeling and doing issue.

It's also an evolutionary adaptation. The mirror neuron system, in the sophistication we as humans now experience, is the basis of language, and has developed from a higher primate awareness of the 'intentional stance' (Daniel Dennett) - otherwise known as Theory of Mind.

Mirror Neurons aren't strongly wired from/to the modalities of the five senses in autism spectrum conditions. These long-range connections to processing parts of the brain like the MNS and the pre-frontal cortex, may be compromised in autism, as has now been somewhat sugggested in the most recent (April 29th) research which points in some cases to a lack of sticky-backed plastic (if I can make that analogy) to longer-range connections in the autistic brain.

No worries. They just have to work out patterns for themselves, which by-pass short cuts, and are better for that at times, because those patterns may be original and effective.

Sorry, I got totally carried away. I shall now creep back under the radar, and return to my box of frogs.....

 

[spionfox]

It always pays to know a little bit about lots of things, than a lot about one subject. :icon_wink

Is that like admitting you're a jack of all trades and a master of none? :icon_lol:

 

[tedfoxxx]

Tedd, I taught linguistics for many years. Sadly those who now teach you are relying on what they learned years ago.

Right, here's the deal. We all have these mirror neurons in our brains. They're like little wing mirrors on lollipop sticks. They do amazing things, and it's all tied up to the motor cortex. If our brain is perfectly wired, when we SEE someone doing something, the mirror neurons immediately make that action happen inside our own brain. NOT ONLY THAT, but they also enable us to 'feel' how it feels, not only on a tactile level but also on an emotional level.

Mirror neurons are the most miraculous-short cut we have to understanding doing and feeling, and also to language acquisition which is also a feeling and doing issue.

It's also an evolutionary adaptation. The mirror neuron system, in the sophistication we as humans now experience, is the basis of language, and has developed from a higher primate awareness of the 'intentional stance' (Daniel Dennett) - otherwise known as Theory of Mind.

Mirror Neurons aren't strongly wired from/to the modalities of the five senses in autism spectrum conditions. These long-range connections to processing parts of the brain like the MNS and the pre-frontal cortex, may be compromised in autism, as has now been somewhat sugggested in the most recent (April 29th) research which points in some cases to a lack of sticky-backed plastic (if I can make that analogy) to longer-range connections in the autistic brain.

No worries. They just have to work out patterns for themselves, which by-pass short cuts, and are better for that at times, because those patterns may be original and effective.

Sorry, I got totally carried away. I shall now creep back under the radar, and return to my box of frogs.....

Aww, thanks for that. For me its good to see your experience of real language applied to the real world rather than someone teaching me from a text book.

 

[Macky]

Is that like admitting you're a jack of all trades and a master of none? :icon_lol:

:icon_bigg
Absolutely, I've always taken that phrase as a compliment.
Adapt and survive, duck and dive.

 

[Innocent]

Ted read Colwyn Trevarthen and Mauritzio Tirassa(2006) on intersubjectivity and 'sharedness' to see socially-constructed (Vygostsky) origins of language and dyadic interchange.

It's good stuff.

OK, OK, I know I said I was crawling back into my frog hole.....Doing that right now......

 

[Macky]

Aww, thanks for that. For me its good to see your experience of real language applied to the real world rather than someone teaching me from a text book.

I only have a limited experience of teachers, but that perfectly sums them up for me. Mentally challenged ****wits that couldn't survive in the real world, repeating verbatim whatever syllabus is handed to them.

 

[tedfoxxx]

Ted read Colwyn Trevarthen and Mauritzio Tirassa(2006) on intersubjectivity and 'sharedness' to see socially-constructed (Vygostsky) origins of language and dyadic interchange.

It's good stuff.

OK, OK, I know I said I was crawling back into my frog hole.....Doing that right now......

I've looked at some wider reading (not very wide, mind) and unfortunatly it has naff all to do with the syllabus. A shame really as its a subject that genuinely interests me, but i'll give it a go as a light holiday read in the summer :icon_wink:icon_lol:

 

[Macky]

Ted read Colwyn Trevarthen and Mauritzio Tirassa(2006) on intersubjectivity and 'sharedness' to see socially-constructed (Vygostsky) origins of language and dyadic interchange.

It's good stuff.

OK, OK, I know I said I was crawling back into my frog hole.....Doing that right now......

Get back in the mad box with your frogs and stop showing off.

Women, I dunno, when will they ever learn that their fragile minds really aren't designed for intellectualisificational man stuff. Bless.

 

[tedfoxxx]

I only have a limited experience of teachers, but that perfectly sums them up for me. Mentally challenged ****wits that couldn't survive in the real world, repeating verbatim whatever syllabus is handed to them.

See my post above. What we are taught is very narrow and disregards an awful lot of the other opinions. But in all fairness I don't think its a reflection on those who teach it. I suppose its a bit like soldiers fighting in a war that people don't generaly agree with. Its not their fault they're fighting in it. :icon_lol:

 

[enderby fox]

How to impress a girl by enderby fox :icon_lol:

doesn't mean your not beautiful cate. I will take anything but i'm sure you'd be the pick of them all :icon_lol: