Speculation Who's next?

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popillius said:
An excellent post. This completely unfounded rhetoric about bad attitudes, downing tools blah blah blah is just a very easy route through which some fans can vent their anger. It's understandable I suppose but it's also sometimes incredibly embarrassing how easily and swiftly people turn against the players.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be criticised, of course they should when merited but this constant moaning and groaning about what goes on in the dressing room or behind the scenes even though this is based on spurious rumours, badly written tabloid junk and lazy guess work is all too often trotted out without any evidence whatsoever. The reasons behind some of our poorer performances run much, much deeper than 'they can't be arsed' or 'they want their mate in charge'. It's much more psychological and you could see that when the Swansea goal went in. There was a fear, a kind of panic about losing that suddenly engulfed them. They became haphazard and messy with the simple things, it wasn't anything to do with effort or attitude.

The new man must address this fear of failure if we are to move forward but the fans must play their part in this too which, in all honesty, most do week in week out.
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I would have been with you on this until Southampton away last season. That's when it became obvious that certain players were choosing when to give their all and when not to. The only other rational explanation for several of the players performances that day is that they were betting against themselves and I'd really hope that isn't the case.

Some players decided to chuck Ranieri under the bus last season for whatever reason. Maybe a few of them resented the attention and adulation that he received. Maybe some of them thought that Ranieri was lucky to get the gig he did and make it all look so easy.

In addition, maybe a few of them know that they'll never do anything like 2015/16 again so motivation will always be difficult from now on. Who knows?

None of this is to do with confidence. You can't turn confidence on and off (see the difference between performances in the Champions League and other games last season) and the only player that has looked remotely like they've struggled for it is Ndidi. You're highly unlikely to be afraid when you're Champions. You should feel a foot taller and much more resilient than before.

The far more likely explanation is that winning the league has gone to a few heads and they think that they're something that they're not and they can do what they want now. Our owners, agents, and general leeches have probably exacerbated this.

And if you want names, my prime suspects are - Schmeichel, Morgan, Fuchs, Drinkwater (before leaving of course) and Vardy. And of these, the latter three were the worst. I didn't see the on/off performances from the likes of Huth, Simpson, Okazaki, Albrighton and Mahrez. When they were poor, they were just poor and their form shifts were rational enough.
 
Brown Nose said:
I would have been with you on this until Southampton away last season. That's when it became obvious that certain players were choosing when to give their all and when not to. The only other rational explanation for several of the players performances that day is that they were betting against themselves and I'd really hope that isn't the case.

Some players decided to chuck Ranieri under the bus last season for whatever reason. Maybe a few of them resented the attention and adulation that he received. Maybe some of them thought that Ranieri was lucky to get the gig he did and make it all look so easy.

In addition, maybe a few of them know that they'll never do anything like 2015/16 again so motivation will always be difficult from now on. Who knows?

None of this is to do with confidence. You can't turn confidence on and off (see the difference between performances in the Champions League and other games last season) and the only player that has looked remotely like they've struggled for it is Ndidi. You're highly unlikely to be afraid when you're Champions. You should feel a foot taller and much more resilient than before.

The far more likely explanation is that winning the league has gone to a few heads and they think that they're something that they're not and they can do what they want now. Our owners, agents, and general leeches have probably exacerbated this.

And if you want names, my prime suspects are - Schmeichel, Morgan, Fuchs, Drinkwater (before leaving of course) and Vardy. And of these, the latter three were the worst. I didn't see the on/off performances from the likes of Huth, Simpson, Okazaki, Albrighton and Mahrez. When they were poor, they were just poor and their form shifts were rational enough.
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I suppose we will never know for sure. I can't get on board with this 'players not playing for the manager' stuff but I understand where it comes from. I certainly do agree with the idea that some of them have become much more arrogant since winning the title and this has effected the way they play but unconsciously rather than consciously. I also think you're right about the motivation after winning the league which would explain the performances in the CL but this in itself is a psychological conundrum rather than deliberate ineptitude. I don't think it was as black and white as players downing tools - there is much more to it and it needs to be dealt with properly not just by employing a manager who may come in shouting the odds - that just won't work.
 
popillius said:
An excellent post. This completely unfounded rhetoric about bad attitudes, downing tools blah blah blah is just a very easy route through which some fans can vent their anger. It's understandable I suppose but it's also sometimes incredibly embarrassing how easily and swiftly people turn against the players.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be criticised, of course they should when merited but this constant moaning and groaning about what goes on in the dressing room or behind the scenes even though this is based on spurious rumours, badly written tabloid junk and lazy guess work is all too often trotted out without any evidence whatsoever. The reasons behind some of our poorer performances run much, much deeper than 'they can't be arsed' or 'they want their mate in charge'. It's much more psychological and you could see that when the Swansea goal went in. There was a fear, a kind of panic about losing that suddenly engulfed them. They became haphazard and messy with the simple things, it wasn't anything to do with effort or attitude.

The new man must address this fear of failure if we are to move forward but the fans must play their part in this too which, in all honesty, most do week in week out.
Click to expand...

It isn't completely unfounded. Good journalists (these also exist in tabloid-land, by the way) from good newspapers reported that the players were influential in Ranieri's dismissal last season and it is now being reported that the players are pissed off at their mate being sacked. Just because videotaped evidence hasn't been produced doesn't mean it isn't true. Lots of journalists have good sources within football clubs who leak anonymously.

It isn't as though anything has been denied by the players. Just look at Schmeichel's reponse to questions about the events surrounding Ranieri's exit. A less than convincing non-denial. All any of us can do is reach opinions on the available evidence. Note that I say 'evidence' rather than 'proof'. My reading is that they had Ranieri sacked and are now pissed off because they weren't allowed to decide that Shakespeare should stay.

I do agree with you on the psychological aspect of their performances since we won the title. I don't think any of them is being deliberately poor or lazy. I think, having achieved the impossible, it must be difficult to reach anything close to those levels of effort again. It just isn't possible, psychologically, to get yourself up for finishing 10th after what they've achieved.

That translates into their general play and they'd probably rather point blame at others (i.e Ranieri) than admit that to themselves. It's also probably why they're annoyed at Shakespeare being booted; they trusted one another and they knew he'd never expose what has (understandably) become of them. They also knew he'd rely heavily on them. He'd worked with them for years and, let's be honest, they got him the job which has set him up for life.

In hindsight the mistake was in not beginning to break up the squad immediately and rewarding players with huge contracts. I'd have done exactly the same, by the way. But it now looks to have been a mistake. Why keep players who know they can never reach the heights again and who, naturally, will have an elevated view of their importance in the running of the club given their role in its finest hour?

I will always regard the title winning players and coaches as heroes and they have more than earnt the right to be called club legends. Since 2013 we've won the second tier easily, managed the great escape, won the league and reached the last eight of the European Cup. It has been a truly stupendous era and I'll be forever grateful to have witnessed it all.

But it is now time to move on. The players are getting older and they can't get it up for the missus any longer after their affair with Kelly Brook. Persevering will only lead to bitterness and acrimonious divorce. It's time for the missus to kick them out and find somebody who will take her on a few nice holidays.
 
Agree with mostly all of that.

However, I see no reason to dismantle the squad wholesale until we have adequate replacements. I take issue with anyone who says Morgan is past it. He is still a great defender and Maguire and Huth are the only ones threatening his place. Maguire is also possible a front CB/deep midfielder as a Kante type role when we get Huth back. I do not think Hamer is better than Schmeichel.

We cannot get rid of Simpson yet as there is no RB in the squad. Then there is Dragovic, but he has not had a run yet, which just could be a case of getting up to PL speed, like many European players find.

While we still have him, there is absolutely no-one who comes near to the magic of Mahrez, so what is the point of getting rid? He is certainly not playing Mr Grumpy at the moment.

I can see an argument for Chilwell starting ahead of Fuchs. Fuchs makes mistakes, but sadly so does Chilwell. Sometimes you just need to kick it into Row Z, but Chilwell is learning, and is obviously the eventual Fuchs replacement, especially if Fuchs teaches him how to take a 30 yard throw-in!

Albrighton is becoming a class act and Gray still has a lot to learn before he seriously threatens Albrighton or Mahrez's place.

Nobody does Vardy better than Vardy, particularly getting entangled in defenders legs for penalty shouts.

Have not seen enough of Amartez etc to know how soon they will be better than we already have.

The Old Guard of Heroes may be two years older, but many of them are still better than our new boys.

Baby- Bathwater etc,

New guy just needs to play the best on the day. They see all the training, the fitness reports, the commitment etc, that we do not.

Maybe some of the back up boys will get a runout against Dirty Leeds, as long as the Band of Heroes are on the bench if needed.
 
pork pie fox said:
I’ve said this since we sacked Ranieri. Certainly to my mates, but I think I’ve also said it on here.
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Rodgers would be great appointment. We'd completely change our playing style for the better but would need a bit of an overhaul in playing personnel to pull it off.

Unfortunately I don't think he'd leave Celtic this season.
 
LeeCovFox said:
Rodgers would be great appointment. We'd completely change our playing style for the better but would need a bit of an overhaul in playing personnel to pull it off.

Unfortunately I don't think he'd leave Celtic this season.
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Yep. Agree with all of that.
 
Why do some posters insist on a big overhaul in terms of formation and players?

We need one or two tweaks in terms of players, we also need to give the new recruits time to bed in, yes TIME.

Iborra is now looking good, and we have Silva to join us at some point.

Although I do not object to the Shakey sacking, this appointment is critical.

All clubs have a band of players who partially ‘manage’ the club and I see this is no bad thing so long as it is kept reasonably in check.

The new manager needs to galvanise the spirit and reinstalll the ‘foxes never quit’ ethos, this along with 2-3 straight wins will see us in the top 8 with the rediculous current panicking over.

Our goals scored is good and our goal difference is also good and probably one win from neutral.

We will piss mid table and probably still achieve 8th or better, come on folks, perspective.
 
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