Post Match City 1 Peterboro 1

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The one in which we had millions to try to improve on that, but didn't.

My point being that Pearson loves those players and likes to adopt a style where 'not losing' is the priority. He chose that line-up yesterday over and above anything else he could have fielded and I'm betting anyone that he'll continue to do so for the remainder of the season...regardless of who SGE bought.
 
My point being that Pearson loves those players and likes to adopt a style where 'not losing' is the priority. He chose that line-up yesterday over and above anything else he could have fielded and I'm betting anyone that he'll continue to do so for the remainder of the season...regardless of who SGE bought.

So that assumption is off one season? Just a single season. If it was over two or three you'd have a point but it's not. As I said the loaning of Spearing towards the end of that season suggested Pearson was ready to evolve the midfield on.
 
My point being that Pearson loves those players and likes to adopt a style where 'not losing' is the priority. He chose that line-up yesterday over and above anything else he could have fielded and I'm betting anyone that he'll continue to do so for the remainder of the season...regardless of who SGE bought.

Do you think Johnson, Danns, Abe or Fernandes have shown anything to suggest that they are any improvement? Because I don't and I wouldn't say any of them are any more attacking to suggest "not losing" is the priority. In fact, I'd say Fernandes and Abe are both more defensive minded players than both King and Wellens.

They're all much of muchness, bringing any of SGE's signings in isn't going to make any difference imo. NP needs to bring in a better level of midfielders to the club in January and/or in the summer, simple as that really for me.

NP has kept Konchesky in ahead of Berner, he's kept Schmeichel in ahead of Weale, I don't think it's a case of choosing his old favourites so much as he just doesn't rate the other midfielders to be any better.

Though I still think the problems run deeper than just the midfield and that the strikers and centre-backs are just as much of a mid-table mediocrity as the midfield is.
 
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How could I answer that, BM? I have no idea, no one does. I hope so, if he doesn't then he has made a mistake, but then he may not be able to get any better in January and may have to wait until the summer, who knows?
This is close to the answer I expected. I believe he should try to improve on Wellens, or improve Wellens. I fear the former is the only option.
 
This is close to the answer I expected. I believe he should try to improve on Wellens, or improve Wellens. I fear the former is the only option.

I completely agree.
 
I don't necessarily think there is any probem with the majority of the players in our squad, I'm convinced it's purely down to things like work rate, tactics and attitude. The same starting line up looked fantastic against Palace. Since then it has been a different kettle of fish. The ability is there in our team for the most part. There are players I'd put question marks over such as Danns and St Ledger but in the main it would be nice to see everyone pulling in the same direction putting 110% in and being a bit more assertive and proactive as Pearson had mentioned a few games ago!
 
Do you think Johnson, Danns, Abe or Fernandes have shown anything to suggest that they are any improvement?

No idea - I've never seen them play. Judging by what I've read on here there's plenty who do feel they offer an advantage over those who took the field though.

I stopped going after QPR at home under Sousa, five minutes into the second half, as I'd had enough of forking out a sizeable amount of money every Saturday for me and the lad to view insipid performances and be surrounded by ignorant morons. I now go non-league where the atmosphere lasts for 90 minutes and there's hardly a dummy on the terrace after a defeat.

The complaints about yesterday's midfield is the same debate we all had under the managers preceding Pearson. I believe nothing changes because of the culture of the managers here, they don't want to lose more than anything else and that often precludes playing in an attacking and stylish manner utilising flair players.

But, as has been stated, maybe he'll change. Maybe he'll sign someone exciting. Maybe I'll then be tempted to get a ticket. Maybe...ooh did you see that? Something flew by and it was all pink and oinking? Whatever could it have been? :icon_bigg
 
Do you think Johnson, Danns, Abe or Fernandes have shown anything to suggest that they are any improvement?.

Could they possibly produce anything more abject than that hopeless display of shite that was on offer yesterday



No, is the answer you are looking for
 
I don't necessarily think there is any probem with the majority of the players in our squad, I'm convinced it's purely down to things like work rate, tactics and attitude. The same starting line up looked fantastic against Palace. Since then it has been a different kettle of fish. The ability is there in our team for the most part. There are players I'd put question marks over such as Danns and St Ledger but in the main it would be nice to see everyone pulling in the same direction putting 110% in and being a bit more assertive and proactive as Pearson had mentioned a few games ago!

First half was very even. Two great goals, but we hardly played Palace off the park did we? And they're a side who were in some of the worst form in the division at the time too. I'm not saying it wasn't a worthy victory, because if you take your chances you deserve to win, but it's not like it was the kind of performance that showed top 2 class.

No offence, TS, but I think anyone who thinks we do have the players is seriously deluding themselves and putting unnecessary expectations and pressure on the side. The odd game here and there against Derby we have performed well, but these are the exceptions rather than the rule. Most of the season we have just looked like a mid-table side and if you actually look at the reputation/history of these individual players you realise they've never actually been that good.

It's all well and good saying Beckford and Nugent will become top Championship strikers if they get the service, but where is this idea coming from? Nugent has never been more than a 1 in 3/1 in 4 Championship striker, he's never been more prolific than Fryatt has been really and Beckford scored a lot of goals in the division below, again, much like Fryatt, but still has yet to really prove himself above that level. I'm not saying they won't come good, but they've never proven themselves to be top Championship strikers before, so I'm not quite sure why people are so sure they are top Championship strikers but just lack the service and let's face it, they have pretty much the same midfield and the same service Waghorn and Fryatt had in 09/10 and don't look any better.

Similarly, Mills and St. Ledger, when in the past have they ever shown they are top Championship defenders? When we signed Mills, reading through the Reading forums they all laughed at us and said how overrated and inconsistent he was, how poor his discipline was and what a poor captain he was, a lot on here wrote it off as bitterness, but everything they said has been true so far. Peterborough and Middlesbrough fans will both tell you SSL is absolute wank and PNE will say the same about him for the past 2 seasons or so as well and he's only ever really had one good season in a side which finished 5th or 6th iirc.

Again, not saying that these players won't definitely come good, I'm just not sure where this unflinching belief some have that these players make up one of the top squads in the division come from, because these players have never shown it in the past, why do people suddenly think these players are very good Championship players and are are just underperforming? They may well be very good Championship players under the right management, but what exactly have the shown in the past for people to say that they are such? For people to constantly defend the likes of Beckford, St. Ledger and Mills saying they will definitely come good etc. just seems a little odd to me. Are they really underpeforming or is it just that they're performing at their usual level?

Playing devil's advocate to an extent here, but I do believe that this idea some have that we are one of the best squads in the division seems to be somewhat like putting one's hands over one's ears and shouting "blah blah blah" very loudly and I also believe it's somewhat detrimental to the squad and the level of expectations we should be at too (as shown by the booing off on Saturday when drawing at home to Peterborough).
 
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It's all well and good saying Beckford and Nugent will become top Championship strikers if they get the service, but where is this idea coming from? Nugent has never been more than a 1 in 3/1 in 4 Championship striker, he's never been more prolific than Fryatt has been really and Beckford scored a lot of goals in the division below, again, much like Fryatt, but still has yet to really prove himself above that level. I'm not saying they won't come good, but they've never proven themselves to be top Championship strikers before, so I'm not quite sure why people are so sure they are top Championship strikers but just lack the service and let's face it, they have pretty much the same midfield and the same service Waghorn and Fryatt had in 09/10 and don't look any better.

Similarly, Mills and St. Ledger, when in the past have they ever shown they are top Championship defenders? When we signed Mills, reading through the Reading forums they all laughed at us and said how overrated and inconsistent he was, how poor his discipline was and what a poor captain he was, a lot on here wrote it off as bitterness, but everything they said has been true so far. Peterborough and Middlesbrough fans will both tell you SSL is absolute wank and PNE will say the same about him for the past 2 seasons or so as well and he's only ever really had one good season in a side which finished 5th or 6th iirc.

Again, not saying that these players won't definitely come good, I'm just not sure where this unflinching belief some have that these players make up one of the top squads in the division come from, because these players have never shown it in the past, why do people suddenly think these players are very good Championship players and are are just underperforming? They may well be very good Championship players under the right management, but what exactly have the shown in the past for people to say that they are such? For people to constantly defend the likes of Beckford, St. Ledger and Mills saying they will definitely come good etc. just seems a little odd to me. Are they really underpeforming or is it just that they're performing at their usual level?

Playing devil's advocate to an extent here, but I do believe that this idea some have that we are one of the best squads in the division seems to be somewhat like putting one's hands over one's ears and shouting "blah blah blah" very loudly and I also believe it's somewhat detrimental to the squad and the level of expectations we should be at too (as shown by the booing off on Saturday when drawing at home to Peterborough).

I understand what you are saying to a certain extent BUT....

Beckford scored 10 goals and was top scorer for Everton last season, which is a pretty decent return for someone who wasn't playing week in week out. It's true that his experience at this level is limited but he can cut it at the level above and therefore it's a bit harsh to say he's only proven at League 1 level.

The same I think applies to St Ledger, although he's not played in the Premier League, to be a cornerstone piece of one of the best defences in Europe for the Rep. Ireland national team, says a lot to me that he can cut it at this level and above.

I agree with some of the others on here, that we do have one of the strongest squads in the league. We have underperformed and given away points (in true Leicester style) to teams in the lower half of the table rather than those above us. Our problem lies with a lack of width and a creative midfielder along with the inability to break teams down at home. I don't think we lack in any other department in numbers or quality and therefore a couple of decent signings in Jan could certainly see us put together a very strong run of results and potentially see us climb the table. Whether it will be enough to get us up this season, or whether Pearson will be able to turn this in to a team that can steamroll over opposition, is another thing.
 
The same I think applies to St Ledger, although he's not played in the Premier League, to be a cornerstone piece of one of the best defences in Europe for the Rep. Ireland national team, says a lot to me that he can cut it at this level and above.
.

:icon_bigg
Where this coming from?

He's played well for a side who come 2nd in a group containing Russia, Armenia, Slovakia, Macedonia and Andorra.

I am rather scratching my head that a fair few people can not seeing that the current City squad is nothing more than average. Promoted teams have confidence and swagger; the signs were on the wall when the players were celebrating a 1-0 win at Coventry like we'd just seen off Man U in their own backyard.
 
I understand what you are saying to a certain extent BUT....

Beckford scored 10 goals and was top scorer for Everton last season, which is a pretty decent return for someone who wasn't playing week in week out. It's true that his experience at this level is limited but he can cut it at the level above and therefore it's a bit harsh to say he's only proven at League 1 level. Yes, he may come good, but he isn't showing it atm and I fail to see what he's really done in the past for people to be so sure that he's an excellent Championship striker who is just underperforming.

The same I think applies to St Ledger, although he's not played in the Premier League, to be a cornerstone piece of one of the best defences in Europe for the Rep. Ireland national team, says a lot to me that he can cut it at this level and above.

I agree with some of the others on here, that we do have one of the strongest squads in the league. We have underperformed and given away points (in true Leicester style) to teams in the lower half of the table rather than those above us. Our problem lies with a lack of width and a creative midfielder along with the inability to break teams down at home. I don't think we lack in any other department in numbers or quality and therefore a couple of decent signings in Jan could certainly see us put together a very strong run of results and potentially see us climb the table. Whether it will be enough to get us up this season, or whether Pearson will be able to turn this in to a team that can steamroll over opposition, is another thing.

Beckford scored 8 goals in the league for Everton, 2 were in the cup against Huddersfield and Scunthorpe respectively. I'm not sure how scoring in 7 league games last season really shows that Beckford is proven above League One level. Again, playing devil's advocate to an extent, but Francis Jeffers also had one season in which he scored in a few games in the PL. I still think Beckford has yet to really prove himself above League One level.

SSL isn't a cornerstone of ROI's defence, he's not first choice, he plays when one of the first choice defence of Dunne, O'Shea, Kilbane and Kelly is out. I'm not sure where you've got the idea where the ROI's defence is one of the best in Europe unless you are talking about the qualifiers in which, with all due respect, only one team in ROI's qualifying group is up to championship standard really don't think the likes of Andorra or Macedonia are anywhere near Championship standard tbh. The only team who are were Russia and in there 2 games vs Russia, Ireland drew 0-0 and lost 3-2. Incidentally, SSL played in the game Ireland conceded 3, but not the game they conceded 0.

The lacking in any department in numbers is such a red herring that people keep putting forward imo. Strength in depth doesn't matter if you don't get the injuries or suspensions. It just means that we can replace one average player with another.
 
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The lacking in any department in numbers is such a red herring that people keep putting forward imo. Strength in depth doesn't matter if you don't get the injuries or suspensions. It just means that we can replace one average player with another.

It does when you are talking about a 'squad' of players. It's nigh on impossible to go through a season without a single suspension or injury. Don't think it's ever happened.

Apart from wide midfielders and a creative spark in the middle, which other positions do you think we are not strong enough in? I can accept our strike force could perhaps use another addition but apart from that I can't see anywhere on the park where we look fragile or below par
 
It does when you are talking about a 'squad' of players. It's nigh on impossible to go through a season without a single suspension or injury. Don't think it's ever happened.

Apart from wide midfielders and a creative spark in the middle, which other positions do you think we are not strong enough in? I can accept our strike force could perhaps use another addition but apart from that I can't see anywhere on the park where we look fragile or below par

But most teams have adequate cover at least, it's not like the teams above us all only have 11 good players and everyone else is below par and even if they don't teams like Southampton and Middlesbrough have excellent youth academies and will often give hungry youngsters a go in case of injuries or suspensions. Our youth academy has been abysmal for years because of our rotten policy of thinking our youth team is there to win youth matches rather than to produce players.

As for other positions which aren't up to being one of the best in the division: our central defence, without a doubt, is mid table mediocrity at it's finest and it's not just the creative spark in midfield, all of our central midfielders are mid table Championship fodder and the strikeforce and widemen are as well. It's not a case of us looking "fragile" or "below par" it's a case of us looking just par: like a mid-table, very average side.

Hazzman, I or anyone else is not saying we are a poor side, just a very average mid-table one, who are about in the right league position for the ability of the squad, as opposed to being one of the best sides in the division and underperforming for the ability of the squad, as you yourself and others have said you think we are.

I will reverse the question now I've answered and say which players do you think we have who show that we are one of the best sides in the division? Because imo just having an excellent goalkeeper and 2 consistent full-backs isn't going to get you very far when the rest of your side is very average.
 
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But most teams have adequate cover at least, it's not like the teams above us all only have 11 good players and everyone else is below par and even if they don't teams like Southampton and Middlesbrough have excellent youth academies and will often give hungry youngsters a go in case of injuries or suspensions. Our youth academy has been abysmal for years because of our rotten policy of thinking our youth team is there to win youth matches rather than to produce players.

As for other positions which aren't up to being one of the best in the division: our central defence, without a doubt, is mid table mediocrity at it's finest and it's not just the creative spark in midfield, all of our central midfielders are mid table Championship fodder and the strikeforce and widemen are as well. It's not a case of us looking "fragile" or "below par" it's a case of us looking just par: like a mid-table, very average side. Hazzman, I or anyone else is not saying we are a poor side, just a very average mid-table one, as opposed to being one of the best sides in the division as you yourself and others have said you think we are.

I will reverse the question now I've answered and say which players do you think we have who show that we are one of the best sides in the division? Because imo just having an excellent goalkeeper and 2 consistent full-backs isn't going to get you very far when the rest of your side is very average.

The division is made up of par teams ans West Ham though.
 
The division is made up of par teams ans West Ham though.

I'd take the squad of pretty much any team, bar Brighton and possibly Leeds, currently above us and probably Birmingham too over ours.

Look at the teams Blackpool, Middlesbrough, Cardiff, Hull etc. all put out on Saturday, they've simply got better teams than us.
 
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you must be joking!!, name me a Blackpool player that would get in our team

Both Kevin and Matt Phillips are much better than anything we have going forward. Evatt is much better than anything we have at centre back, Catchcart is probably better too. Taylor-Fletcher and Ferguson are much better than anything we have in the centre of midfield.
 
I will reverse the question now I've answered and say which players do you think we have who show that we are one of the best sides in the division? Because imo just having an excellent goalkeeper and 2 consistent full-backs isn't going to get you very far when the rest of your side is very average.

I'd say Schmeichel is the best Keeper in the league....although I know you haven't singled him out. Bamba certainly good enough to play in the Prem as is Konchesky. I genuinely think that our back four is extremely strong and will be one of the best in the division once it beds down. I think after a full season playing together they will be a force to be reckoned with and we saw glimpses of that when putting together that run of clean sheets and I wouldn't swap any of them.

Our midfield requires attention, certainly need more width and pace and a creative spark, but I still think most of the central midfielders we have would feature in most teams in the top 10.

Beckford and Nugent, I definitely think are top 6 fodder! I think we could use another striker perhaps. Let's face it though, this is an area we tried to bolster throughout the summer and unfortunately those we were targeting were either unprepared to make the step down or were at clubs that were unwilling to sell them. So I don't know how we could have improved on what we acquired in the summer. I'd like to go back in for Maynard in January, as I think we would get him.

I agree about our academy, I think Sven was trying to change that. However, was Pearson not part of the problem there? or was it all Mandaric?

Incidentally I don't think Southampton have the best squad by far on paper, they have, like many other promoted teams in recent seasons, benefited from playing together in a successful and settled squad and hit the ground running. We need to bear that in mind before making another round of wholesale changes.
 
I'd say Schmeichel is the best Keeper in the league....although I know you haven't singled him out. Bamba certainly good enough to play in the Prem as is Konchesky. I genuinely think that our back four is extremely strong and will be one of the best in the division once it beds down. I think after a full season playing together they will be a force to be reckoned with and we saw glimpses of that when putting together that run of clean sheets and I wouldn't swap any of them.

Our midfield requires attention, certainly need more width and pace and a creative spark, but I still think most of the central midfielders we have would feature in most teams in the top 10.

Beckford and Nugent, I definitely think are top 6 fodder! I think we could use another striker perhaps. Let's face it though, this is an area we tried to bolster throughout the summer and unfortunately those we were targeting were either unprepared to make the step down or were at clubs that were unwilling to sell them. So I don't know how we could have improved on what we acquired in the summer. I'd like to go back in for Maynard in January, as I think we would get him.

I agree about our academy, I think Sven was trying to change that. However, was Pearson not part of the problem there? or was it all Mandaric?

Incidentally I don't think Southampton have the best squad by far on paper, they have, like many other promoted teams in recent seasons, benefited from playing together in a successful and settled squad and hit the ground running. We need to bear that in mind before making another round of wholesale changes.

The problems with the academy lies with Craig Levein, first and foremost, he was the one who changed the philosophy to bring in a load of big players, win at all costs at youth level. It takes years to overhaul your academy til you start producing good players again, because you've got to start training these players from scratch again.

Schmeichel is class, but having a great GK isn't going to win you any promotions. I disagree about Bamba being a PL player, he can be fantastic on his day, but is far too inconsistent and has too many erratic moments. Mills and SSL certainly don't look like players who belong in one of the best squads in the division. I think if you wouldn't swap Bamba, Mills or SSL for plenty of other players in the division then you must have been watching entirely different players to me this season. A run of 4 clean sheets isn't that amazing and shouldn't be an indicator of having one of the best defences in the division, Crystal Palace went on a 5 game clean sheet run earlier in the season ditto Birmingham, it's about how many you concede over 46 games, not how many you concede over 4 games . Do you not think our defence has had long enough to bed down yet? One of the problems imo and one of the reasons why you say it's all down to "bedding in" is that we don't have an organiser at the back a la Wayne Brown. Mills was obviously brought in to do this job, but he's as quiet as a mouse and never talks or tries to organise his defence when out on the pitch. This is certainly one type of player we definitely lack and need in the centre of defence.

I fail to see how most of our central midfielders would be ahead of the current first choice midfielders in any of the top 10? Who are you talking about here: King? Wellens? Johnson? Abe? Fernandes? Danns? You really think these players would waltz in and put the likes of Gary Taylor-Fletcher, Barry Ferguson, Kevin Nolan, Jack Collision, Don Cowie, Adam Clayton, Danny Pugh, Corry Evens, Robert Koren, Craig Noone, Matthew Bailey, Jobi McAnuff, Mikele Leigertwood etc. etc. on the bench? If so you have far, far more faith in the likes of Wellens, King, Abe, Johnson, Fernandes and Danns than I do, because to me these players just aren't good enough compared to the teams around us.

Again, what are you basing the Beckford and Nugent being excellent Championship strikers who are just underperforming on? What have they done, either here or in the past to show that they are top Championship strikers who are just underperforming? 7 games with Everton in the PL? Nugent getting a bizarre England call-up?
 
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