Post Match City 1 Peterboro 1

[Profondo Rosso]

What are you on about? You seem to have just replied to bygone post.

Why do you keep saying our back line? I'm not talking about our back line, I think the full-backs are good consistent players, in fact it's only because of the strength of our GK and our full-backs that we have a mid-table level of goals conceded imo, our centre backs have been far too costly for us this season and we can quite easily do better. Regardless of the midfield or the attack with good consistent centre-backs we'd probably be about 9 points better off than we are now imo.

And it may even help our midfield and attack, as Mills constantly giving the ball away has hindered the building of our own counter-attacks far too often.

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

Personally, I think the ones who are deluding themselves into thinking we have one of the best squads in the division are the ones being negative as they are heaping unwarranted pressure and expectations onto the team. The rest of us are realising that we've not got the players to go up and are accepting that and so are not going overboard at bad results and saying we are "underperforming," because we don't think we are. The former group will be the ones calling for NP's head and moaning about "poor" results long before the latter group.

It's not the usual response to a frustrating game or period at all, there's been plenty of us who have been saying the squad is very average for months.

Goals per game (11th) and goals against per game (joint 8th-10th) is a much better way of measuring the quality of a team than goal difference.

Not wanting to sound offensive or anything but I think you don't half come out with some rubbish of late :icon_lol

Any neutral will tell you we are underperforming with the squad we have which IS one of the best in the division on paper. Feck me, a good nmber of our players have been involved with Premier League sides in some way or other and the ones that haven't are nearly all either players who are proven at this level or players who have previously shown they can compete at the top of this league under Pearson. For me, only West Ham have a better squad. I also don't see how this is heaping unnecessary pressure on the team. Expectations are high due to the expectation of, rather than a desire for promotion from the board. I'm not so sure it has anything to do with the size of our squad or the money we have spent. Even so, the management is all to aware of the remit when they re-joined us and no doubt the players are well used to the expectation levels now as they are no different from when Sven was in charge. I'd argue expectation levels have been pretty high ever since the end of the Martin O'Neill days.

I can also guarantee I won't be calling for Nigel's head anytime soon either, contrary to your belief I think he needs time and if he gets it I think he will make us successful. The issue is, are the owners going to be patient enough if promotion doesn't come this or next season?

As a final point, surely goals per game and goals against per game combined is the same thing as goal difference?

 

[Profondo Rosso]

Not wanting to sound offensive or anything but I think you don't half come out with some rubbish of late :lol_icon

Any neutral will tell you we are underperforming with the squad we have which IS one of the best in the division on paper. Feck me, a good nmber of our players have been involved with Premier League sides in some way or other and the ones that haven't are nearly all either players who are proven at this level or players who have previously shown they can compete at the top of this league under Pearson. For me, only West Ham have a better squad. I also don't see how this is heaping unnecessary pressure on the team. Expectations are high due to the expectation of, rather than a desire for promotion from the board. I'm not so sure it has anything to do with the size of our squad or the money we have spent. Even so, the management is all to aware of the remit when they re-joined us and no doubt the players are well used to the expectation levels now as they are no different from when Sven was in charge. I'd argue expectation levels have been pretty high ever since the end of the Martin O'Neill days.

I can also guarantee I won't be calling for Nigel's head anytime soon either, contrary to your belief I think he needs time and if he gets it I think he will make us successful. The issue is, are the owners going to be patient enough if promotion doesn't come this or next season?

As a final point, surely goals per game and goals against per game combined is the same thing as goal difference?

What do neutrals have to do with anything? You can think I've come out with rubbish if you like, not bothered one bit, but I think you will be in the vast minority of Leicester fans in thinking that only West Ham have a better squad than us and like Hazzman said earlier, I'm really scratching my head how anyone can possibly look down our squad list and having watched these players with their own two eyes, honestly think that we do have that.

Of course the expectations are about the money we've spent, if the board had been spouting off as to how much they want promotion and we hadn't spent any money expectations wouldn't have been anywhere near as high. Our expectations haven't been as high as this since Micky Adams was sacked, nowhere near it in fact. Do you really think we were expected to get automatic promotion so much by fans and the media when Craig Levein was here? If so, you have a very short memory.

Why does being involved with a PL side in some way mean you are good enough to be in one of the top squads in division? Why does being a proven at this level mean you are a player good enough for one of the top sides int he division? Because the likes of Nugent, Beckford, Mills etc. have done little in the PL (it's fair to say in fact that Nugent has been a complete and abject failure at PL level) they are suddenly players who make up a side that only West Ham is superior to? Yes SSL, Mills and Nugent are proven decent Championship players, but since when were they proven to be among the very best players in the division?

Our midfield and attack was average under Pearson when we made the play-offs in 09/10, that team didn't score particularly many goals but was built around a mean defence, the kind of mean, misely, very low conceding defence that we don't currently have.

Having watched them for several years now, do you honestly think that King, Wellens, Dyer and Gallagher are the kind of players who are the first choice midfield of one of the best squads in the division or do you think they are all just average and inconsistent Championship midfielders? Because I find it hard to believe anyone would think the former and I'm scratching my head as to why people are using us making the top 6 with that midfield in the past as evidence as to us having one of the best squads in the division. The midfield was never the reason we made the play-offs in 09/10, the defence was.

Honestly, GK and full-backs aside (and the full-backs are very debatable), can you please point out who these players who are among the very best in the division are? Because looking down our squad list I really can't see any of them.

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

What do neutrals have to do with anything? You can think I've come out with rubbish if you like, not bothered one bit, but I think you will be in the vast minority of Leicester fans in thinking that only West Ham have a better squad than us and like Hazzman said earlier, I'm really scratching my head how anyone can possibly look down our squad list and having watched these players with their own two eyes, honestly think that we do have that.

Of course the expectations are about the money we've spent, if the board had been spouting off as to how much they want promotion and we hadn't spent any money expectations wouldn't have been anywhere near as high. Our expectations haven't been as high as this since Micky Adams was sacked, nowhere near it in fact. Do you really think we were expected to get automatic promotion so much by fans and the media when Craig Levein was here? If so, you have a very short memory.

Why does being involved with a PL side in some way mean you are good enough to be in one of the top squads in division? Why does being a proven at this level mean you are a player good enough for one of the top sides int he division? Because the likes of Nugent, Beckford, Mills etc. have done little in the PL (it's fair to say in fact that Nugent has been a complete and abject failure at PL level) they are suddenly players who make up a side that only West Ham is superior to? Yes SSL, Mills and Nugent are proven decent Championship players, but since when were they proven to be among the very best players in the division?

Our midfield and attack was average under Pearson when we made the play-offs in 09/10, that team didn't score particularly many goals but was built around a mean defence, the kind of mean, misely, very low conceding defence that we don't currently have.

Having watched them for several years now, do you honestly think that King, Wellens, Dyer and Gallagher are the kind of players who are the first choice midfield of one of the best squads in the division or do you think they are all just average and inconsistent Championship midfielders? Because I find it hard to believe anyone would think the former and I'm scratching my head as to why people are using us making the top 6 with that midfield in the past as evidence as to us having one of the best squads in the division. The midfield was never the reason we made the play-offs in 09/10, the defence was.

Honestly, GK and full-backs aside (and the full-backs are very debatable), can you please point out who these players who are among the very best in the division are? Because looking down our squad list I really can't see any of them.

I think you are clouding your view of the situation, when the new owners came in, they had high expectations for the club, whether they spent any money or not to get us to live up to those is almost a side issue because the expectation was there as soon as they arrived and before the spent any money. The money didn't create it at all, that is just a means to achieve the goal. Besides expectation and pressure is not necessarily a bad thing is it, professionals should be able to deal with that.

The way I look at it with regards to our midfield is that they are proven good enough to make the play offs in this league, under the very same manager no less. So in that respect yes they are all capable of being first choice midfielders for a top Championship team - and that is something they have proven before. I'd also argue that our success that season wasn't purely built on a mean defence, our club knows better than most that a good defence alone is not enough to guarantee success - remember we were relegated to league one with one of the best defensive records in the league that season.

You also want to make up your mind about whether you are trying to refer to whether we have one of the best squads in the division or the best individuals in the divison. They are two different things. But I would say that we do have some of the best individuals. I'd say we have one of the best left backs, and one of the best goalkeepers for sure. A good way to look at it would be to look at players in the other squads in the league and see which of those players you would take over ours..

Maynard from Bristol City for example is one of the top strikers in the division but they most certainly don't have one of the best squads. I look at Leeds who are doing well but the only player I'd have from them is Snodgrass. I look at Middlesboro' and say we have a better squad. I'd look at Southampton and say that they have a squad that is running off the high of promotion the season before, much like Norwich last season and ourselves the season before that - they don't have one of the best squads on paper but they are there on merit. Cardiff? Arguably they are at a similar level to us at the moment...

 

[Profondo Rosso]

I think you are clouding your view of the situation, when the new owners came in, they had high expectations for the club, whether they spent any money or not to get us to live up to those is almost a side issue because the expectation was there as soon as they arrived and before the spent any money. The money didn't create it at all, that is just a means to achieve the goal. Besides expectation and pressure is not necessarily a bad thing is it, professionals should be able to deal with that.

The way I look at it with regards to our midfield is that they are proven good enough to make the play offs in this league, under the very same manager no less. So in that respect yes they are all capable of being first choice midfielders for a top Championship team - and that is something they have proven before. I'd also argue that our success that season wasn't purely built on a mean defence, our club knows better than most that a good defence alone is not enough to guarantee success - remember we were relegated to league one with one of the best defensive records in the league that season.

You also want to make up your mind about whether you are trying to refer to whether we have one of the best squads in the division or the best individuals in the divison. They are two different things. But I would say that we do have some of the best individuals. I'd say we have one of the best left backs, and one of the best goalkeepers for sure. A good way to look at it would be to look at players in the other squads in the league and see which of those players you would take over ours..

Maynard from Bristol City for example is one of the top strikers in the division but they most certainly don't have one of the best squads. I look at Leeds who are doing well but the only player I'd have from them is Snodgrass. I look at Middlesboro' and say we have a better squad. I'd look at Southampton and say that they have a squad that is running off the high of promotion the season before, much like Norwich last season and ourselves the season before that - they don't have one of the best squads on paper but they are there on merit. Cardiff? Arguably they are at a similar level to us at the moment...

Do you honestly think from where we were when the new owners came in i.e. bottom of the league with half our team supposedly requesting transfers, the expectations would be as high as supposedly walking our way to promotion as they were at the start of this season without the money spent? I have to strongly disagree. Expectation isn't always a bad thing, no, but it is absolutely a bad thing when it means people think we should be getting promotion with this current squad and that this current squad doesn't need adding to as there is only one squad in the division which is better.

Hang on a minute: "The way I look at it with regards to our midfield is that they are proven good enough to make the play offs in this league, under the very same manager no less. So in that respect yes they are all capable of being first choice midfielders for a top Championship team - and that is something they have proven before."

Surely that's basically saying that because of their position in the league that means that squad is good enough, in which case surely that means every side above us in the league are all proven good enough of being a better squad than ours as they are currently ahead of us in the league? Which kind of defeats your point.

You also say write Southampton's squad as not being one of the best squads in the division and is living off the momentum of promotion much like ours was, but surely that means either you don't believe that squad was worthy of a 5th place finish or that Southampton's squad is proven to be a better squad than ours as shown by their much better performance in the league?

Also, saying it's not just about defence because of the relegation season is off, because we were also the lowest scorers in the season we went down and had probably the worst attack and midfield in the division. No one is saying our midfield in 09/10 was anywhere near as bad as that, but it certainly wasn't one of the best in the division and that side certainly was built around a mean defence. Put an average Championship defence in that side and it would have been a mid-table side, which is exactly what we have on our hands now.

I've already said which players from Southampton and Blackpool I'd take over ours and I'd certainly take the majority of Hull's, Cardiff's, Middlesbrough's and probably Birmingham's first xis, including probably their entire midfields and certain strikers and centre-backs, over ours as well.

 

[gregs_y2k]

I think you are clouding your view of the situation, when the new owners came in, they had high expectations for the club, whether they spent any money or not to get us to live up to those is almost a side issue because the expectation was there as soon as they arrived and before the spent any money. The money didn't create it at all, that is just a means to achieve the goal. Besides expectation and pressure is not necessarily a bad thing is it, professionals should be able to deal with that.

The way I look at it with regards to our midfield is that they are proven good enough to make the play offs in this league, under the very same manager no less. So in that respect yes they are all capable of being first choice midfielders for a top Championship team - and that is something they have proven before. I'd also argue that our success that season wasn't purely built on a mean defence, our club knows better than most that a good defence alone is not enough to guarantee success - remember we were relegated to league one with one of the best defensive records in the league that season.

You also want to make up your mind about whether you are trying to refer to whether we have one of the best squads in the division or the best individuals in the divison. They are two different things. But I would say that we do have some of the best individuals. I'd say we have one of the best left backs, and one of the best goalkeepers for sure. A good way to look at it would be to look at players in the other squads in the league and see which of those players you would take over ours..

Maynard from Bristol City for example is one of the top strikers in the division but they most certainly don't have one of the best squads. I look at Leeds who are doing well but the only player I'd have from them is Snodgrass. I look at Middlesboro' and say we have a better squad. I'd look at Southampton and say that they have a squad that is running off the high of promotion the season before, much like Norwich last season and ourselves the season before that - they don't have one of the best squads on paper but they are there on merit. Cardiff? Arguably they are at a similar level to us at the moment...

Completely agree. Glad I'm not the only one to think this.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

The more I think of this "look at the quality of our squad as a whole other than individuals" the even less it makes sense.

One look at our bench on Saturday showed how abysmal it was and how this "squad" and "strength in depth" is probably not just a red herring but a load of bollocks anyway.

Our attacking options to come on were Howard and Schlupp, our options in midfield to come on were Danns and Fernandes. Very dire for a supposedly great "squad" with great "strength in depth."

 

[bocadillo]

I genuinely feel sorry for the owners - I hope that they've still got access to plenty of money and are not too diillusioned.

I don't feel sorry for the owners at all. They thought they could buy success; they thought they could buy the Championship; they thought they could buy a place in the Premier League. They are no better than the 'kids' who come on here and make recommendations on player-acquisitions on the basis of their playing them in the various computer game settings; they are trying to live out a fantasy.

Luckily they seem to have plenty of money to squander - but for how long will they want to continue to throw it away in the same fashion? And what happens when they get wise?

 

[Matt_B]

For what it's worth Proffo:

Kasper - very good, no improvement needed
Konchesky, Peltier and Bamba - same as above
Mills - adequate but not brilliant. He didn't choose to be bought for 5m but he's good enough.

Wellens and King - Both very good players, unfortunately not together. If we were playing one of them with someone like Abe or Fernandes then they might get forward quicker. They have both looked their best to me when played alongside Oakley during Pearson's last reign.

Dyer - nowhere near good enough if we are go to persist with two wingers.

Gallagher - technically very good and can change a game but isn't fast enough to be the only wide man producing. If we stick with Dyer then we need someone better on the right.

Nugent and Beckford - adequate and will get 10 goals each probably, but when your third striking option is Howard then you will struggle to score. He can't change a game and offers nothing.

 

[Redditch Fox]

I don't feel sorry for the owners at all. They thought they could buy success; they thought they could buy the Championship; they thought they could buy a place in the Premier League. They are no better than the 'kids' who come on here and make recommendations on player-acquisitions on the basis of their playing them in the various computer game settings; they are trying to live out a fantasy.

Luckily they seem to have plenty of money to squander - but for how long will they want to continue to throw it away in the same fashion? And what happens when they get wise?

The main difference is that unlike the kids they are playing with real money.

Yes - there must come a point when they will wise up and look for a damage limitation strategy. Lets hope we get another whirl next season before that happens - or a run of outstanding results this season and success in the lottery of the play offs.

 

[spionfox]

The best way to properly judge quality of teams put out is goal difference and even with a famous lack of consistency we have the seventh best in the championship.

And seventh best puts us outside of the play offs!

 

[Feriol]

IMO a lot of our squad is underperforming. That's not to say i think we have one of the best squads, but i think we should be doing better.

Kasper, Bamba, Peltier, Konchesky, and Nugent are the only players performing as we would expect them to consistently enough, which i think is good enough for a team with play-off ambitions. Gallagher has also been pretty good recently. Unfortunately the rest of the team are letting them down.

Dyer is doing exactly what we could realistically expect from him, which isn't good enough for our ambitions. though i think he could still be useful as sub late in games against tired defenders.

I Think King has the ability to be in a top championship team but has been my biggest disappointment this season.

I don't think we have seen the best of Mills, Wellens, or Beckford this season, whether their best would be good enough, i don't know.

I've seen nothing from the rest of the squad to suggest they could possibly be any improvement.

 

[Redditch Fox]

I've seen nothing from the rest of the squad to suggest they could possibly be any improvement.

Massive changes in personnel have led to no significant improvements in results. Pretty big investment has led to no improved measurable outcomes.

The main difference is that i think that Pearson is a lot more grounded than Sven and that given time is likely to achieve what is required - unlike Sven who i think would have continued to spend the owners money to no great effect.

 

[RHYDAL]

Not wanting to sound offensive or anything but I think you don't half come out with some rubbish of late :icon_lol

Any neutral will tell you we are underperforming with the squad we have which IS one of the best in the division on paper?

Are you up yet?

Cardiff? Arguably they are at a similar level to us at the moment...

If 5 points off the play-offs is similar to 2 points off the automatics, then yes.

 

[indierich06]

Kasper, Bamba, Peltier, Konchesky, and Nugent are the only players performing as we would expect them to consistently enough, which i think is good enough for a team with play-off ambitions.

If this is Nugent at his best and most consistent, then he's nowhere near good enough to lead the line for us. 4 goals in the league is not good enough. I know a lot of fans like him because of his workrate, but is it really enough? If he carries on at this rate, he won't even make double figures by the end of the season - nowhere near good enough for a striker in a team which wants to be challenging for promotion.

Funny that a lot of the fans who like Nugent seem to be the same ones who didn't rate Yakubu... hardly surprising though I suppose.

 

[spionfox]

Any neutral will tell you we are underperforming with the squad we have which IS one of the best in the division on paper.

Shame we play on grass then.

 

[spionfox]

The main difference is that i think that Pearson is a lot more grounded than Sven and that given time ...........

I think I see the flaw in your plan.

 

[spionfox]

Funny that a lot of the fans who like Nugent seem to be the same ones who didn't rate Yakubu... hardly surprising though I suppose.

Iz it cuz he's..................

Nah, don't go there.

 

[RHYDAL]

If this is Nugent at his best and most consistent, then he's nowhere near good enough to lead the line for us. 4 goals in the league is not good enough. I know a lot of fans like him because of his workrate, but is it really enough? If he carries on at this rate, he won't even make double figures by the end of the season - nowhere near good enough for a striker in a team which wants to be challenging for promotion.

Funny that a lot of the fans who like Nugent seem to be the same ones who didn't rate Yakubu... hardly surprising though I suppose.

It always suggests to me that a striker who is working hard is covering for the inadequacies of the midfield or defence i.e. getting into the corners to provide width, chasing after hoofed clearances and tracking back to defend. I only like to see a strong attacker come back past halfway for corners/free-kicks when the opposition centre backs move in. And never leave the central corridor where he's got a good view of the goal. They're paid to deliver one thing. Sweat aint it.

 

[indierich06]

It always suggests to me that a striker who is working hard is covering for the inadequacies of the midfield or defence i.e. getting into the corners to provide width, chasing after hoofed clearances and tracking back to defend. I only like to see a strong attacker come back past halfway for corners/free-kicks when the opposition centre backs move in. And never leave the central corridor where he's got a good view of the goal. They're paid to deliver one thing. Sweat aint it.

You're absolutely spot on there. That's what always annoyed me about Alan Young and all the others who criticised Yakubu for his supposed lack of workrate - he worked hard to carve chances out for himself and when he was on the ball he always did everything he could to try and score, but he didn't waste time tracking back or running around like a headless chicken (see Nugent, Waghorn...) and quite rightly so - his job as a striker was to score goals, not cover for the inadequacies of the defence or the midfield.

The stats sum it up for me. In 20 appearances, Yakubu scored 11 goals for us. In 17 appearances for us Nugent has scored 6. In just three more games (1 of them as a sub) Yakubu scored nearly twice as many goals. Yet in some fans' heads, Nugent is the better player.

God I wish we still had Yakubu.