Post Match City 1 Peterboro 1

[indierich06]

Iz it cuz he's..................

Nah, don't go there.

Lazy? :icon_wink

 

[Kingy_85]

Iz it cuz he's..................

Nah, don't go there.

A fatty?

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

Are you up yet?


If 5 points off the play-offs is similar to 2 points off the automatics, then yes.

You are missing out the main point which is that we are underperforming and you aren't!

I'd probably just about agree with Beight's views on the individuals in our starting line up in the main. I think I'd like to see a winger or two and another striker to provide competition for the front two. Howard is past it at this level now and we obviously don't yet know if Schlupp is going to be good enough to perform at this level regularly or not. My inclination is that he probably isn't otherwise he'd have been given more of a chance but we haven't really seen that much of him in the grand scale of things and I would obviously be happy to be proven wrong!

 

[Lako42]

Fernandes, that is all.

 

[Hazzman]

It always suggests to me that a striker who is working hard is covering for the inadequacies of the midfield or defence i.e. getting into the corners to provide width, chasing after hoofed clearances and tracking back to defend. I only like to see a strong attacker come back past halfway for corners/free-kicks when the opposition centre backs move in. And never leave the central corridor where he's got a good view of the goal. They're paid to deliver one thing. Sweat aint it.

Fair ol' point Rhydal. You wanna see how deep Nugent is coming for the ball. He's on course for the 15 I expected off him.

Any neutral will tell you we are underperforming with the squad we have which IS one of the best in the division on paper. Feck me, a good nmber of our players have been involved with Premier League sides in some way or other and the ones that haven't are nearly all either players who are

Well these neutrals must be believing a lot of rubbish from the media.

Only four of our current squad have won promotion from this division. Konchesky as a kid at Charlton, Oakley and Howard at Derby and Danns at Birmingham.

In terms of players with Premiership experience; only Konchesky, Oakley and at a stretch Vassell could be judged to have been competent for more than a season at that level. Johnson and Pantsil had one season of being decent. Fernandes six months. Howard, Gallagher, Danns and Nugent were failures with Beckford on the fence.

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

We aren't in the Premiership yet though are we, for where we are right now I think we have a great squad that is more than capable of getting promoted but we just aren't seeing the best from them. We really don't need wholesale changes to get us promoted as far as I'm concerned - heck, you could argue that sort of approach has been a real hinderance to us in the last few seasons. Danns, Howard, Gally and Nugent are all proven top players at this level, or atleast have been at some point in their careers.

 

[RHYDAL]

You are missing out the main point which is that we are underperforming and you aren't!

I'm not in a position to comment on your team's performances. I haven't really seen enough of your games, or your new signings as individuals to make a reliable judgement on what should or shouldn't be expected when they're thrown together.

My comment was meant to indicate that the team is underperforming against your(fans) criteria i.e. promoted by Feb, but that those criteria are unrealistic despite the amount TOP shelled out putting the team together. You're on your second manager of the season, a lot of the team IMO are on wages which are a disincentive, you seem to have no modus operandi that the team has bought into as a unit, the pressure from fans, owners etc is huge and it's only December ffs.

Are we over-performing? Against my(fans) criteria, probably yes. New manager, over half the team are new and not a lot of money spent. But who's to say that Malky isn't a genius who has assembled a team of talented, hard working, young, hungry lads, none of whom would necessarily be looked at twice by a Premiership team, and instilled in them a steel and work ethic that is producing a fantastic run of results, but still hasn't realised their full potential?

Over/underperforming is in the eye of the beholder. All that matters is the table. That performance indicator suggests you're similar to Blackpool, not us.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

We aren't in the Premiership yet though are we, for where we are right now I think we have a great squad that is more than capable of getting promoted but we just aren't seeing the best from them. We really don't need wholesale changes to get us promoted as far as I'm concerned - heck, you could argue that sort of approach has been a real hinderance to us in the last few seasons. Danns, Howard, Gally and Nugent are all proven top players at this level, or atleast have been at some point in their careers.

When exactly did they prove themselves to be top players at this level?

You obviously have a much, much lower opinion of what a "top player" is at this level than I do. They're proven decent players at this level, yes, but definitely not proven top players. We could quite easily get better than any of them and many teams in this division have better.

Danns and Gallagher are very average players imo and Howard simply isn't good enough anymore. As the season goes on it's looking more and more like Nugent is a Waghorn/Hume style headless chicken, there are certainly much better strikers in the division atm that him, including probably Fryatt, which says a lot (he's certainly no worse). None of them are close to being "top" players at this level imo.

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

I'm not in a position to comment on your team's performances. I haven't really seen enough of your games, or your new signings as individuals to make a reliable judgement on what should or shouldn't be expected when they're thrown together.

My comment was meant to indicate that the team is underperforming against your(fans) criteria i.e. promoted by Feb, but that those criteria are unrealistic despite the amount TOP shelled out putting the team together. You're on your second manager of the season, a lot of the team IMO are on wages which are a disincentive, you seem to have no modus operandi that the team has bought into as a unit, the pressure from fans, owners etc is huge and it's only December ffs.

Are we over-performing? Against my(fans) criteria, probably yes. New manager, over half the team are new and not a lot of money spent. But who's to say that Malky isn't a genius who has assembled a team of talented, hard working, young, hungry lads, none of whom would necessarily be looked at twice by a Premiership team, and instilled in them a steel and work ethic that is producing a fantastic run of results, but still hasn't realised their full potential?

Over/underperforming is in the eye of the beholder. All that matters is the table. That performance indicator suggests you're similar to Blackpool, not us.

I'm not sure our team is really underperforming against our fan's criteria. Some fans like myself will realise the need for a bit of stability and would be more than happy if we were to grow at this level for a few seasons, though admittedly I might be in a minority on that viewpoint. The issue is really underperforming given the players we have available to us. Many neutrals will have expected us to be higher than where we are right now. Performance wise yes you only need to look at the league table, we are not doing badly - just not as well as was expected of us from many.

This 'steel and work ethic' you refer to is more or less the point I am trying to make. We have the ability in our squad, but we only see glimpses of it. There isn't enough of the work ethic or the desire to be successful shown by us that other teams are showing and this is what we need to focus on rather than 'these players aren't good enough' when they have shown in the past that they are all very good players.

When exactly did they prove themselves to be top players at this level?

You obviously have a much, much lower opinion of what a "top player" is at this level than I do. They're proven decent players at this level, yes, but definitely not proven top players. We could quite easily get better than any of them and many teams in this division have better.

Danns and Gallagher are very average players imo and Howard simply isn't good enough anymore. As the season goes on it's looking more and more like Nugent is a Waghorn/Hume style headless chicken, there are certainly much better strikers in the division atm that him, including probably Fryatt, which says a lot (he's certainly no worse). None of them are close to being "top" players at this level imo.

Danns was always highly rated at Palace. Nugent was one of the top players in the league when playing for Preston, indeed he was great for us at first, since Sven left he seems to have lost a bit of form for whatever reason. Howard is a great player in his prime and has performed well for both Derby and Luton. Gally was a regular part of the side that reached the play offs in Pearson's first tenure.. clearly good enough.

 

[RHYDAL]

You are missing out the main point which is that we are underperforming and you aren't!.

I'm not sure our team is really underperforming against our fan's criteria. Some fans like myself will realise the need for a bit of stability and would be more than happy if we were to grow at this level for a few seasons.

Lost me now.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

Danns was always highly rated at Palace. Nugent was one of the top players in the league when playing for Preston, indeed he was great for us at first, since Sven left he seems to have lost a bit of form for whatever reason. Howard is a great player in his prime and has performed well for both Derby and Luton. Gally was a regular part of the side that reached the play offs in Pearson's first tenure.. clearly good enough.

Since when did being highly rated at Palace side who've been very mediocre in recent years make you a top Championship player? Joey Gudjonsson was highly rated when they were here when we were at a similar level to Palace are now,he was certainly nowhere neat being a top Championship player though.

Nugent was never one of the top players in this league, at Preston he was a youngster who was rated as one of the players with the most potential in this league, but he was certainly never considered one of the best players in the league. He's never seemed to really fulfill this potential though and if you look through his scoring record it is very poor for what you consider a top striker at this level, no better than Akinbiyi's, probably worse, no better than Fryatt's either really and little better than Hume's and they've generally played in generally worse sides. There are plenty of much better strikers in this division than Nugent currently and if we really want to be one of the best sides in the division we can do much better.

 

[ChrisFilter]

I disagree. Nugent is a good player. A better player than Fryatt then Hume. He's had some bad luck but is capable of being a 20+ goal a season striker.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

I disagree. Nugent is a good player. A better player than Fryatt then Hume. He's had some bad luck but is capable of being a 20+ goal a season striker.

Has been no better this season than Fryatt was under Pearson. Virtually the same midfield and same service and is scoring at a worse rate and Fryatt has scored more for Hull this season even though Hull have scored less than us and by all accounts don't have any better "service".

What is the bad luck he's had?

If he's capable of being a 20+ goal a season striker but has just had bad luck, then his entire career must have been going through one long spell of bad luck as he's never come close to being a 20+ goal a season striker.

 

[indierich06]

I disagree. Nugent is a good player. A better player than Fryatt then Hume. He's had some bad luck but is capable of being a 20+ goal a season striker.

What's he ever done to suggest that? I don't think he's ever managed in his total career. I think the most he's ever scored in one season is 18 for Preston about 5 years ago.

I'll be more than happy if you're proven to be right - I just can't see him scoring 14+ goals between now and the end of the season.

EDIT: He managed 14 for Pompey last season apparently - still nowhere near 20+ a season, but if he gets anywhere near that I'll be happy enough. But I just can't see it at the minute.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

The most he's ever scored was 19, but most of that was played in League Two (or whatever it was called then) with Bury. The most he's ever scored in a season at this level was 15 in 44 games back when PNE were regular promotion chasers.

He's never been a prolific scorer and looking down his record it's very mediocre and it's difficult to see where his reputation comes from other than that bizarre England call-up. Unless it's another Waghorn/Hume case where working hard apparently matters more than contributing goals and helping get wins for your team.

No way is he, or ever has been, one of the top players in this division.

 

[Han]

Nugent may run around a lot chasin the ball but he's by no means a headless chicken in the Waghorn/Hume sense. He just seems incredibly fit and therefore capable of doing the extra work. He's technically very good on the ball and is a goal threat when in the box. I'd rate him as our second best signing, behind Kasper.

We do not need a "top" side to get out of this division, we just need an above average one. I think if we sign someone better to play alongside King in midfield, a striker and a left sided player then we'll be in with more than a good shout of making the play-offs.

There are plenty of good players out there that would fit the mould and I trust NP to buy sensibly (rather than flicking through his phonebook a-la Sven).

 

[spionfox]

Howard is a great player in his prime.....

The word you should have used was "was".

 

[Profondo Rosso]

Nugent may run around a lot chasin the ball but he's by no means a headless chicken in the Waghorn/Hume sense. He just seems incredibly fit and therefore capable of doing the extra work. He's technically very good on the ball and is a goal threat when in the box. I'd rate him as our second best signing, behind Kasper.

But none of that matters, he can have all the technical ability in the world and have the stamina of a camel, his job is to score and/or create goals and he isn't doing that at anything above an mediocre level and he has never done it at anything above an mediocre level his entire career.

 

[Miles Away]

Apart from that time he got called up to the England squad?

 

[camberwell fox]

Have you drank a couple of pints of argumentative juice Prof? :icon_conf

Nugent is only 1 cog in the machine and will perform better when we get our sh*** midfield sorted out.

He has been forced to come deep in games and this has led to less goal scoring opportunities. The less he scores inevitably the deeper he will come, the less he will score and so on.

Our lack of creativity and width in the middle is causing us problems not only in being combative and creative in this area of the pitch but also our defence and attack.

I also think that the lack of a good midfield unit is resulting in us playing longer balls out, bypassing the middle and clearly not playing to our strengths.

Unfortunately at the moment i don't actually see what our strenghts are as we have no width - Dyer is to crossing what Hindley was to child care. The rest of our midfield is so static and mono-creative.

We have royally ****ed up over nearly a year and a half and i unfortunately feel it will take a fair amount of time to sort out.