Post Match Doncaster 2-1 Leicester

[LeeCovFox]

This is one of the odditys at the moment - it's not like we are lacking in options in the midfield stakes!

We may not be lacking in midfield options in terms of numbers, but we are certainly lacking in midfield options when considering the role each individual is capable of fulfilling.

 

[gregs_y2k]

I'm still waiting for my answer on why you think Mills and Beckford are worth £8million.

I didn't say anything about today's game. It's not NP's fault he's been left with this mediocre squad, which we spent millions on to go backwards.

I was making the point about those playing today. I think Mills was over priced but I think Beckford is worth 3.5 Million.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

Konchesky has played consistently in a successful team at a level above Berner under Pearson. you're an idiot

Surely by that logic you also think Pantsil is a much better player than Peltier and should be in the team ahead of Peltier? Because Pantsil has played consistently in a successful team at a level above Berner under Pearson and that anyone who thinks Peltier should be in the team ahead of Pantsil is an idiot?

FFS! Simply playing in the Premier League does not make you a great player, much less when you're an ageing player like Konchesky.

Peltier is much better than Morisson, underlined by he fact that Morisson has had to step down in class.

And that Morrison is well on course for League One player of the season, whereas Peltier just 6 months ago was nowhere near that...

Morrison could easily be playing in the Championship if he wanted to and he will do next season and he'll have a great season in a Charlton team which will be right up there fighting for promotion. Mark my words.

Bamba is far more gifted than Brown ever was. Brown was a hard man but never going to be good enough to play in the Premier league had we got there or had he not alienated himself under Pearson. Bamba can and will make that step up.

Wayne Brown was the best leader and organiser we have had for donkey's years.

Bamba is more talented, no question, but he's not a better defender and he does not add to the team as much as Brown did. We completely lack any kind of communication or leadership in this current side, Schmeichel is the only one who provides anything near the sort, and that is exactly what Brown brought to the fold. Bamba is fantastic on his day, but he is inconsistant as hell.

1Sometimes I really think you're an idiot

Good for you.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

I was making the point about those playing today. I think Mills was over priced but I think Beckford is worth 3.5 Million.

Based on what you've seen so far? Or the goals he scored in League One?

And why did you make that post in direct response to my post then? Because I said nothing about it being in an individual match. It's nothing to do with this match, it's what we've witnessed all season.

 

[Cate Fox]

Here's the real problem for me which is so unrecognised, we consistently considering two goals a game on too many occasions. This has been the case for 1 and half seasons. The likes of Bamba and Peltier have had ok seasons but they are still equally part of the problem, there is no natural dependable leader amongst them whose example to follow.

http://talkingballs.co.uk/showthread.php/34113-Too-many-signings
Can I win Serious Post of the Year for this...please?

If it made sense, definitely :icon_bigg

 

[Dunmow Fox]

If there's no changes in midfield on Boxing day, I'm going to be very angry

Agree , on train back home thinking we are v average.
Dyer should have come off much earlier. Welles was poor again.
Gallagher cannot dominate , and king covers ground but isn't playing with confidence.
You could easily change all 4.
Pearson has to get away from "past players"... Including howard who did nothing wrong but is only effective as a sub.
Beckford did ok . And peltier had another good game.
The season looks dead now. Again (as Peterboro).. 1-0 up and don't seem to want to finish a poor side off.
Having said that sharpes second goal was excellent. Fair play to him considering what he is trying to cope with.

Very very disappointing day

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

No they won't! Good managers will get average players in who fit a system and work well together, not just buy names and hope they fit together willy nilly has SGE did.

You cannot make crap players good, no matter who your manager is.



More than capable of competing for a play-off place? You've changed your tune, it was only West Ham have a better squad the other day.

This is the thing though! As you yourself said our midfield made the play-offs before, so you think they must be good enough. You seem to think just because they played in a side who reached the play-offs or played in the PL they must be good enough, that does not mean they are great individual players at all, in fact it says nothing about them as individual players at all. When you start to look at these individual player's records/read up on older club's fans' opinions of them you start to realise they're not all that.

Beckford has proven abillity at League One level and scored a whopping 8 goals in the PL, that does not mean he has proven ability to be in a top Championshipside.



I can agree with that.

And I'll also note, he had a poor start at Hull, but did well once he brought some of his own players in. Ask any Hull fan and they'll say he came into a team of overrated, big named mercenaries (which is exactly what we have here) and he changed that for a younger hungrier side.

I haven't changed my tune at all, as far as I'm concerned I think only West Ham do have a better squad. That is not to say that there aren't other teams in the league who are of similar ability to ours, Cardiff for instance have a strong squad too. But some of the clubs are simply better organised, in better form etc etc.

For you to suggest that Wayne Brown is a better player than Sol Bamba as an example is utterly laughable. Is Wayne Brown still playing at league one level at present? Hell, is he even still playing? You are comparing him with someone who plays international football regularly and who we have seen clearly has great ability.

You would assume that if Beckford can preform to a decent standard in the Premier League he will also be able to do so in the Championship. You would assume that if Yakubu can perform to a decent level in the Premier League he could do it in the Championship.

To reply to someone else, We have Matt Mills who can 'play the ugly side of the game' and put his body on the line but it still isn't working for us at this moment in time is it.

Pearson needs to get us better organised and but that desire and belief back in that we are good enough to get promoted. This is the main thing above all else. Like I said, I don't expect a big overhaul of players - arguably this will only add to our troubles anyway as it will be another example of chop and change where it isn't really needed.

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

We may not be lacking in midfield options in terms of numbers, but we are certainly lacking in midfield options when considering the role each individual is capable of fulfilling.

I can see your point here. For me, at present I'd like to see a diamond with Abe holding, King at the tip and maybe Danns and Dyer out wide as these are the only two players who we have that have a bit of pace in midfield that can play these wide positions even mildly effectively. Gally's style is too docile to be stuck out wide right. As often as Danns loses the ball atleast he looks to get forward and play the ball forward whereas Gally will more often knock it back - a good example of this proactive versus reactive mentality Pearson goes on about that we don't see enough of.

 

[Ike O'Noclassed]

Here's the real problem for me which is so unrecognised, we consistently considering two goals a game on too many occasions. This has been the case for 1 and half seasons. The likes of Bamba and Peltier have had ok seasons but they are still equally part of the problem, there is no natural dependable leader amongst them whose example to follow.

http://talkingballs.co.uk/showthread.php/34113-Too-many-signings
Can I win Serious Post of the Year for this...please?

If it made sense, definitely :icon_bigg

The conundrum is that since we signed Richie, when he plays well (and by well, I mean as leader/playmaker, not as defender and definitely not auxiliary striker), we do well. This is strange as he really isn't that good a player and his decline in form may be terminal.

What is disturbing is that I think Youngy was saying as much today and I found myself nodding in agreement, especially when the more signings junkies were in full diarrhoeal flow.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

For you to suggest that Wayne Brown is a better player than Sol Bamba as an example is utterly laughable. Is Wayne Brown still playing at league one level at present? Hell, is he even still playing? You are comparing him with someone who plays international football regularly and who we have seen clearly has great ability.

What does where he's playing today have to do with his ability when he played for us?

Wayne Brown is definitely a better defender than Sol Bamba imo. Bamba is undoubtedly a better player at his best and a far more talented player, but that isn't what being a good defender is about. Brown organised the defence 10 times better than anyone we currently have, or have had since Elliott, he was also far more consistent as well, which is hugely important for a defender.

You would assume that if Beckford can preform to a decent standard in the Premier League he will also be able to do so in the Championship. You would assume that if Yakubu can perform to a decent level in the Premier League he could do it in the Championship.

8 goals in one season is hardly performing to a decent standard, two words: Michael Ricketts. You can't compare him to Yakubu, he was a proven PL player in the PL for years.

Honestly, people seem to be blinded by these 8 goals Beckford scored in the PL. If Fryatt, also a prolific goalscorer in League One, had been playing like Becford has been since he joined us, they'd all be saying what a liability he is and asking for anyone, even Howard to come in, like they are doing with Wellens.

Pearson needs to get us better organised and but that desire and belief back in that we are good enough to get promoted. This is the main thing above all else. Like I said, I don't expect a big overhaul of players - arguably this will only add to our troubles anyway as it will be another example of chop and change where it isn't really needed.

Organisiation isn't solely down to the manager though, in fact I'd say very little of it is, players aren't robots who a manager can just control. You need players who are intelligent enough to recognise the way the game is developing (with regards to both their own individual games and that of their team mates) and disciplined enough to not let their concentration slip. We lack any sort of organisation or players with any positional intelligence or knowhow on the pitch. That is what Wayne Brown was so great at and why he was a better defender than Bamba is.

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

And that Morrison is well on course for League One player of the season, whereas Peltier just 6 months ago was nowhere near that...

Morrison could easily be playing in the Championship if he wanted to and he will do next season and he'll have a great season in a Charlton team which will be right up there fighting for promotion. Mark my words.

Would you have said the same when Morrison was piss poor for Sheffield Wednesday at league one level? I remember some of them saying he was the worst player they had ever seen play for them. Morrison has ability when managed right - exactly the issue with most of our team at present. Why can you recognise the ability of Morrison based on past performances but not players in our own team? Is it just because he is now showing some ability again whereas our players currently aren't? Baffling..

 

[spionfox]

Fryatt and Waghorn > Beckford
Fryatt and Waghorn = Nugent

So you are saying that Nugent is at least twice the player that Beckford is.

 

[spionfox]

I suspect that the Boxing Day line-up will vary very little from today ... an ineffective midfield, shaky defence and impotent strikeforce.

With only one outcome..............

 

[spionfox]

Pearson needs time to put his own stamp on the club again

Yes he does. Will the owners give him that time though?

Hopefully they will show patience and understanding that there is no quick fix to where we find ourselves.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

Would you have said the same when Morrison was piss poor for Sheffield Wednesday at league one level? I remember some of them saying he was the worst player they had ever seen play for them. Morrison has ability when managed right - exactly the issue with most of our team at present. Why can you recognise the ability of Morrison based on past performances but not players in our own team? Is it just because he is now showing some ability again whereas our players currently aren't? Baffling..

As I've said several times, because I don't see that that is the issue. I don't see where people are getting the idea from these players are just underperforming. They've never shown that they are that great and this is just a spell of poor form.

Nugent has never been a prolific scorer.
Beckford has only been a prolific scorer in the lower leagues.
Fernandes is an energetic ball winner, but he's not going to provide us with any creativity.
Mills, by all accounts from Reading fans has always been an error-prone and inconsistent defender.
Ditto St. Ledger from PNE and Boro fans.
Danns was heralded in a medicore, relegation scrapping side and Palace fans don't seem to miss him, he was poor at Birmingham when they were a promotion chasing side.
Bamba has been refered to as being "bombscare Bamba" by his past teams.
We've seen Wellens, King, Dyer and Gallagher for enough time now to know they are all too inconsistent.

People all seem to be happy to accept our midfield is not good enough, because we've seen them for several years now, which I agree on, but why do people all of a sudden think Beckford and Nugent will score bagfuls of goals with the right service (and imo they really haven't lacked that much service anyway), or that Mills, St. Ledger and Bamba will suddenly become consistent defenders, when their record suggests differently?

 

[Brauny Blue]

Cheer up boys, Santa will be here soon.....

 

[Rotherham Fox]

So he can absolutely waste millions on more mediocre players?

It's looking more and more like in 10 years time we'll rank SGE alongside Taylor and Allen.

i already do. Bring on schlupp

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

As I've said several times, because I don't see that that is the issue. I don't see where people are getting the idea from these players are just underperforming. They've never shown that they are that great and this is just a spell of poor form.

Nugent has never been a prolific scorer.
Beckford has only been a prolific scorer in the lower leagues.
Johnson's career has been killed by injuries.
Fernandes is an energetic ball winner, but he's not going to provide us with any creativity.
Mills, by all accounts from Reading fans has always been an error-prone and inconsistent defender.
Ditto St. Ledger from PNE and Boro fans.
Danns was heralded in a medicore, relegation scrapping side and Palace fans don't seem to miss him, he was poor at Birmingham when they were a promotion chasing side.
We've seen Wellens, King, Dyer and Gallagher for enough time now to know they are all too inconsistent.

All too inconsistent? Oh.. so that's how we made the play offs with them in the midfield for the majority of the season.. (*EDIT - Oh wait, I remember it was solely because of the defence that we were so good that season (not forgetting that at best a good defence alone will get you a lot of 0-0 draws, and thus get you relegated. Ah yes, we know this too - having been relegated to League One with one of the best defenses that year, I'm feeling a sense of deja vue... going over old ground etc etc etc)

Nugent has made a fair tally of goals at this level on a number of ocassions - whether you care to consider him as being prolific or not is up to you but the ability is there. He has scored again today but we have been on the end of another bad result. Mills, for all his error prone inconsistancy was still a big part of a Reading side that made the play off final last season and was always in and around the play offs leading up to that. Fernandes isn't a creative player, he is a player like Abe who is a combative energetic ball winner, we knew this when we signed him - so why are you pointing out this as a weakness in his game? Do all our players have to be perfect at everything for you to be happy? Does this mean Kasper Schmeichel is crap because he can't finish for shit?I'm not going to consistantly argue with you about what the problem is with our season.

Back to the point you made about Brown and his leadership qualities, it's obvious Pearson recognises this as a problem. We know for a fact he has told Bamba he'd like him to be more vocal, this isn't really a question of ability but one of organisation - as I keep alluding to!

 

[Mawsley]

Chins up. Worse things happen at sea.

 

[Richie]

No they won't! Good managers will get average players in who fit a system and work well together, not just buy names and hope they fit together willy nilly has SGE did.

As Sven did with the England squad. He played the "name" players game in game out, whether or not they fitted a system or could play together successfully. Lampard & Gerrard being the most obvious example. This is where he differed to Alf Ramsey who put the merits of the team over an individual.