For those more anal.........

[Hazzman]

I can't agree with your view - if you have the chance, then take it and do the best you can to make it work. Where would City get the finances to match even one season in the Prem for rebuilding? I think MM is shrewd enough not to overspend and gamble too much on survival (can't remember him doing that at Pompey and most of us hoped and believed they would come down again).

If MM is shrewd, we'll have a team good enough to go up next season. Look at the clubs which have go down after getting promoted via the play-offs, the parachute payments in no way helped them.

 

[Mikeoadby]

I would ask Martin O'Neill if he thought going up by the play-offs is a bad idea

 

[Hazzman]

OK, I take it back. You are 100% correct, getting promoted via the play offs is very bad

In the LONG TERM!!!, and from a situation which sees us currently 13th.

West Ham, Crystal Palace and Wolves all made a late run for the playoffs. Look at their current situations, they werent able to raise a good enough squad, they overspent and two of them are in a position not to dis-similar to ours. West Ham's situation is terrible, almost Leeds II.

 

[Hazzman]

I would ask Martin O'Neill if he thought going up by the play-offs is a bad idea

I haven't said that going through the play-offs is a bad idea. People here are not seeing my whole opinion. Going through playoffs in our current position is a bad idea. When MON took us up through playoffs, we had a decent little side and the gap was a lot more smaller than currently.

 

[Melton Fox]

In the LONG TERM!!!, and from a situation which sees us currently 13th.

West Ham, Crystal Palace and Wolves all made a late run for the playoffs. Look at their current situations, they werent able to raise a good enough squad, they overspent and two of them are in a position not to dis-similar to ours. West Ham's situation is terrible, almost Leeds II.

What are you doing?, I said I'm not arguing. I agree with you that we should stop aiming for the play offs now.

 

[Mike - True Blue Tinter]

You take any chance of going up. One season in the Prem = £50 million, a lot more than MM is putting in!

When you come back down again you rebuild slowly with your £50 million to have a much stronger team.

Building a strong team in the Championship over two years with £9 million is not going to get you a better team more likely to stay up.

 

[Biff]

It struck me that MM was right and all of the delays regarding the takeover have probably cost us a chance of the play-offs.

I thought i would be a little anal and do some analysis to see if he was right and this is what I found..

Before the MM takeover rumours really broke in the press (start of November) we had recovered from a bad start and were on the very fringes of play-off contention with 21 points from 15 matches.

The takeover lasted from November through to the end of January (mute point whether Luton at home was in or out of this). During this 3 month period we managed only 12 points from 15 matches (relegation form).

Since he has been unofficially at the helm we have garnered another 11 points from 5 matches.

So that is a total of 32 points from 20 matches before and after the takover uncertainty (average of 1.6 points per match) against 12 points from 15 matches during the period of uncertainty (0.8 points per match).

This period of uncertainty has arguably cost us 12 points. That would have given us 56 points - just 3 points off the play-offs with a game in hand over most.

just think where we will be next season based on your formula

 

[Mikeoadby]

Furthermore I am not sure that when we went up with MON that we were thought to be better than we are now. Muzzy (the sainted one) was not exactly the best from Chelsea (so was thought), Savvo failed at ManU, Neil Lennon came up from Crewe and was untested (I suppose a bit like Gareth Mac) ad infinitum, ad nauseum

 

[Hazzman]

You take any chance of going up. One season in the Prem = £50 million, a lot more than MM is putting in!

When you come back down again you rebuild slowly with your £50 million to have a much stronger team.

Building a strong team in the Championship over two years with £9 million is not going to get you a better team more likely to stay up.

The stats say otherwise. You can say all you like about this £50 million but you're not going to attract 50million players to the Championship, even 50 million split across 11 players. You going to get the same exact type of player with 9million whilst the Championship.

What are you doing?, I said I'm not arguing. I agree with you that we should stop aiming for the play offs now.

Stop being a prick, you are selectively choosing what I have said. I have presented the stats and facts and it proves any late rush, bid to the Premiership has massive effects on the clubs in the long term.

 

[Lako42]

just think where we will be next season based on your formula

playing s****horpe?

 

[Melton Fox]

Stop being a prick, you are selectively choosing what I have said. I have presented the stats and facts and it proves any late rush, bid to the Premiership has massive effects on the clubs in the long term.

See Hazza, I say the same things you are, now you think I sound like a prick. Enough evidence there to say you really don't believe in what you are saying

 

[Hazzman]

Furthermore I am not sure that when we went up with MON that we were thought to be better than we are now. Muzzy (the sainted one) was not exactly the best from Chelsea (so was thought), Savvo failed at ManU, Neil Lennon came up from Crewe and was untested (I suppose a bit like Gareth Mac) ad infinitum, ad nauseum

Where were we in the table and where we hovering all season. Many said when McGhee was here it was the best footballing side we had in a while. So we already had the makings of a fine side. MON came on the take the reins of a manager who jumped ship. As I have mentioned also the gap was a lot more smaller.

 

[Hazzman]

See Hazza, I say the same things you are, now you think I sound like a prick. Enough evidence there to say you really don't believe in what you are saying

Massive NEGATIVE effects in the long-term.

 

[Melton Fox]

Massive NEGATIVE effects in the long-term.

Exactly, I bet Derby, Southampton, Sunderland and Cardiff are currently shitting themselves sat in those precarious play off positions

 

[Hazzman]

Exactly, I bet Derby, Southampton, Sunderland and Cardiff are currently shitting themselves sat in those precarious play off positions

But their bid is not a late, bid dash to get promoted. They have been suggesting all season that they are play-off quality sides with this in mind January seen them buy a few decent players.

My position is this if we were to make a late, bid playoffs it would be bad for us in the long-term. It applies to any club.

I apologise Melton. After re-reading, the thread I see you understand my opinion. But I felt it was done in a sarky way, the typed word is not the greatest indicator of understanding what tone the person maybe trying to communicate in.

 

[Muzzy's Right Boot]

From our current situation and the shite we have been in i can't see how getting promoted and taking the money the prem brings is a bad thing. The kind of figures you receive now for going up and coming down is astronomical.

I wouldn't worry your little heads about it though guys as there is no chance at all that we are going up this season. 3 or 4 bad results and we are right back down there again battling relegation

 

[Steven]

Either way, I don't believe the MM saga is responsible for us missing the play offs, if anything it's reponsible for us avoiding relegation

I agree. :icon_eek: :icon_conf :icon_conf

 

[highland fox]

We have missed the playOffs because we aren't good enough and our Manager isn't up to the job..IMO

 

[alex]

Any rush into the play-offs would be bad for us in the long-run. We would become like Watford, relegated by December and building for the Championship in January. Take this as a season of consolidation, even an improvement from last term.

Loving it.

 

[drew]

I really dont understand how anyone can think getting promoted this year would be a bad thing.

For a start if we did come back down at least we would have 2 years worth of extra parachute payments to play with, thus making us stronger.