Gallagher and Wellens

[indierich06]

Who is abusing who? I've never abused Gallagher, I've never boo'd him. I've actually argued the opposite. You're totally missing the point. He made those gestures to you as well. He didn't single out those that had criticised him. He did it to all LCFC supporters.

As for those that did criticise him. So what? Are footballers beyond criticism? Is it being outlawed now to spare the poor darlings feelings? Do you think footballers can't cope with criticism? People have always gone to football matches to cheer and boo. What about the ref against Boro? Were the thousands of people (including me) criticising him that night out of order because we might have hurt his feelings?

I get your whole argument about playing football as a job and watching football as a customer. I just don't agree with it and it doesn't stack up. We don't go to support another team because our team play badly. We don't pick our team based on 'consumer' factors. It's nonsense.

I think football is more than that, just like a lot of 'consumer' relationships are more than that. If you don't, and you're representative of others, it's a sad state of affairs.

Oh, and I don't consider myself to be NP or any such thing. As a supporter of the club, I consider myself to be far, far more important than NP. So should you. So should we all.

What he's had to put up with goes far beyond criticism. It's abuse. If I ranted and raved and swore at an Asda employee in the middle of a supermarket for making a mistake they'd call the police, but Gallagher's supposed to take it on the chin apparently. There's nothing constructive about calling him a **** for not taking a good corner, that's not a critique. I'm not saying you personally abused him by the way either, I'm just talking about people who have. And as for the fact that he aimed his ear-cupping motion at the entire crowd, what's he supposed to do? How is he supposed to single people out of a crowd? Do it and then point at individual people who have been booing him? I knew why he was doing it and I knew it wasn't aimed at me and so did anyone with a modicum of common sense, they knew it was aimed at the people who had been booing him and abusing him. Simple.

The majority of the fans are important to the club. It's the arsehole minority who boo and hurl abuse at our own players that we could do without.

 

[Jenks]

Can someone explain what these gestures are?
I can't remember anything other than a hand to his ear, which isn't the kind of thing anyone could find offensive, unless they're deaf and they think he's taking the piss.

 

[indierich06]

As for those that did criticise him. So what? Are footballers beyond criticism? Is it being outlawed now to spare the poor darlings feelings? Do you think footballers can't cope with criticism?

As for Gallagher's gesture. So what? Are fans beyond criticism? Is it being outlawed now to spare the poor darlings feelings? Do you think fans can't cope with criticism?

As my old man said, don't dish it out if you can't take it.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

Who is abusing who? I've never abused Gallagher, I've never boo'd him. I've actually argued the opposite. You're totally missing the point. He made those gestures to you as well. He didn't single out those that had criticised him. He did it to all LCFC supporters.

Eh? His actions absolutely were aimed to those who booed him. I doubt he'd have aimed it at people who were supporting him. What is he supposed to do to make it clear, go round the ground and pointing out the individuals who booed him? It clearly was aimed at those fans who were booing him.

As for those that did criticise him. So what? Are footballers beyond criticism? Is it being outlawed now to spare the poor darlings feelings? Do you think footballers can't cope with criticism? People have always gone to football matches to cheer and boo. What about the ref against Boro? Were the thousands of people (including me) criticising him that night out of order because we might have hurt his feelings?

:icon_lol: Pretty funny seeing as you are the one being the "poor darling" who seems to gotten a tiz over what Gallagher did.

Do you honestly not understand the difference between criticism and abuse?

I get your whole argument about playing football as a job and watching football as a customer. I just don't agree with it and it doesn't stack up. We don't go to support another team because our team play badly. We don't pick our team based on 'consumer' factors. It's nonsense.

I think football is more than that, just like a lot of 'consumer' relationships are more than that. If you don't, and you're representative of others, it's a sad state of affairs.

Why doesn't it stack up? You've said it doesn't but not explained why.

Just because fans make an individual conscious choice not to change their service provider after years of bad service doesn't make it any different at all. If I kept shopping at ASDA after buying plenty of faulty products and having years of bad service I'm still a customer and I don't think I should have any more right to start abusing staff there for making mistakes than anyone else.

You say it doesn't stack up to you that you're just a customer, but why? As far as I can see you're just a customer who ties some faux man-made ideals of loyalty and "taking one for team" to paying for the team's services.

Oh, and I don't consider myself to be NP or any such thing. As a supporter of the club, I consider myself to be far, far more important than NP. So should you. So should we all.

Nope, we really shouldn't. We are customers and that is all.

You still haven't told me why we are not simply customers and why we are more important to this football club and so have more right to criticise than we are when we shop at ASDA or for to our local fish and chip shop or mechanic or pay for any other goods or services.

 

[M17TT C]

How many Asda employess can you name PR?

 

[Matt_B]

How many Asda employess can you name PR?

I don't see your point? Because you know someone's name you have a right to abuse them? I know the name of the woman who works on my newsagent, if she send the wrong paper again, bitch is gonna get served.

 

[Micky]

If the worst a player ever does to me, is to cup his ear, then I think I'll be fine. If the 'cupping' is prompted by a load of abuse that I have previously dished out, then I'll count myself lucky.

 

[M17TT C]

I don't see your point? Because you know someone's name you have a right to abuse them? I know the name of the woman who works on my newsagent, if she send the wrong paper again, bitch is gonna get served.

You don't see my point as I haven't made it clear yet but very nice of you to derive your own opinion of what my point was and take it to the extreme as per.

The point was about public figures and how face to face abuse in a store is completely different to shouting at someone 100+ yards away who probably can't here you anyway but seeing as you know what the point was already there is little point in continuing as that would be belittling.

 

[Matt_B]

You don't see my point as I haven't made it clear yet but very nice of you to derive your own opinion of what my point was and take it to the extreme as per.

The point was about public figures and how face to face abuse in a store is completely different to shouting at someone 100+ yards away who probably can't here you anyway but seeing as you know what the point was already there is little point in continuing as that would be belittling.

How does that relate to whether he knows their name or not?

 

[Micky]

You don't see my point as I haven't made it clear yet but very nice of you to derive your own opinion of what my point was and take it to the extreme as per.

The point was about public figures and how face to face abuse in a store is completely different to shouting at someone 100+ yards away who probably can't here you anyway but seeing as you know what the point was already there is little point in continuing as that would be belittling.

I disagree. Just because you are 100+ yards away you shouldn't be able to shout abuse, even if the player 'might' not be able to hear you. When I take my little lad to watch the football (when he's old enough) I wouldn't dream of setting that kind of moronic example to him.

 

[Macky]

The point was about public figures and how face to face abuse in a store is completely different to shouting at someone 100+ yards away who probably can't here you anyway but seeing as you know what the point was already there is little point in continuing as that would be belittling.

Thank Thor that you didn't continue making this point. It is ****ing absurd.

 

[M17TT C]

How does that relate to whether he knows their name or not?

Because you, he or I could name 100s, if not 1000s of footballers or other public figures but I would be confident that very few, but most likely none, on here could name one person that works in Asda or any other supermarket unless they are a friend or family member as they are not public figures.

Something like this is to be expected when someone is a public figure. I'm not saying that this is right or wrong before you jump to that conclusion as well, but it is to be expected - it always has happened and always will when people are in the spotlight and is completely different to what Joe Bloggs might have to deal with on his average day at work in his average job.

 

[Matt_B]

Because you, he or I could name 100s, if not 1000s of footballers or other public figures but I would be confident that very few, but most likely none, on here could name one person that works in Asda or any other supermarket unless they are a friend or family member as they are not public figures.

Something like this is to be expected when someone is a public figure. I'm not saying that this is right or wrong before you jump to that conclusion as well, but it is to be expected - it always has happened and always will when people are in the spotlight and is completely different to what Joe Bloggs might have to deal with on his average day at work in his average job.

I thought your point was to do with how far away he was?

 

[Macky]

Because you, he or I could name 100s, if not 1000s of footballers or other public figures but I would be confident that very few, but most likely none, on here could name one person that works in Asda or any other supermarket unless they are a friend or family member as they are not public figures.

Something like this is to be expected when someone is a public figure. I'm not saying that this is right or wrong before you jump to that conclusion as well, but it is to be expected - it always has happened and always will when people are in the spotlight and is completely different to what Joe Bloggs might have to deal with on his average day at work in his average job.

Okay, that's great, but what does that have to do with what's being discussed, apart from in a very general sense? What point are you trying to make? Gallagher should or shouldn't have dared cup his ear?

 

[M17TT C]

I disagree. Just because you are 100+ yards away you shouldn't be able to shout abuse, even if the player 'might' not be able to hear you. When I take my little lad to watch the football (when he's old enough) I wouldn't dream of setting that kind of moronic example to him.

I'm not saying it is right or wrong, merely stating that someone calling a football a c*nt from the terraces is very different to someone calling a checkout assistant the same thing at a supermarket.

 

[Miles Away]

I'm not saying it is right or wrong, merely stating that someone calling a football a c*nt from the terraces is very different to someone calling a checkout assistant the same thing at a supermarket.

Correct, it's more cowardly.

 

[Mawsley]

I'm not saying it is right or wrong, merely stating that someone calling a football a c*nt from the terraces is very different to someone calling a checkout assistant the same thing at a supermarket.

Well you don't know my name and I am at least 40 miles away from you - so is it OK if I call you a **** because I think your argument sucks more arse than a budget gay porno flick?

The answer is 'no'. It would not be acceptable for me to call you a **** simply because I am distant to you and know your name, whether it was true or not.

 

[Brown Nose]

Eh? His actions absolutely were aimed to those who booed him. I doubt he'd have aimed it at people who were supporting him. What is he supposed to do to make it clear, go round the ground and pointing out the individuals who booed him? It clearly was aimed at those fans who were booing him.

You're pretty much making my point for me here. Absolutely right, he can't single those fans out that he wants to react against. Therefore, the sensible thing is not to do it in the first place.

 

[Brown Nose]

Do you honestly not understand the difference between criticism and abuse?

So in your world, we're allowed to criticise but not abuse. So we can say, "referee, in my opinion you've got that decision wrong" but we can't say "how could you miss that ref, you t**t"?

If that's the case, you're arguing against thousands of supporters at every game as well as with most players and managers. You're also arguing against both human nature and football culture. Good luck with that.

 

[Mawsley]

Human nature is to swear at people?

****ing bollocks.