How Are People Feeling Today?

[RHYDAL]

I am amazed how poor a campaign has been run by the Yes brigade. You'd barely know there was a referundum going on today

We have the AM elections on at the same time so I've had an endless stream of junk mail coupled with Green Hippies/Tory Buffoons/Communists and Pinkos at the door.
Is it Friday yet?

 

[spionfox]

Australia, with compulsory voting, enjoys turn-outs of over 90%

Are the 10% who weren't compelled citing incapacity of some kind? Either hospitalisation or incarceration?

 

[Cate Fox]

Are the 10% who weren't compelled citing incapacity of some kind? Either hospitalisation or incarceration?

For some reason I read that as incineration :icon_lol:

 

[bocadillo]

They use the AV system in Australia. In the last 100 years they've had two coalition governments.

Not true. There have been over 20 coalitian goverments in Australia since the 1920s, the National Party and the Liberal Party having been in regular coalition since then.

There have been two minority governments in that time with the coalition parties having to rely on further coalition with other parties to be able to govern.

Is it typical of PR/AV to confuse matters by failing to compare like with like?

 

[spionfox]

For some reason I read that as incineration :icon_lol:

I suppose that would be a good excuse too :icon_lol:

 

[bocadillo]

Are the 10% who weren't compelled citing incapacity of some kind? Either hospitalisation or incarceration?

Everybody is supposed to vote. I understand that about 5% don't and that they are asked to explain themselves. Those who do not have good reason are usually fined.

 

[Jeff]

So why is it that Australia is trying to get rid of AV?

Are they?

There was an opinion poll not long after their election that said a majority wanted to change, but that may well have been a knee jerk reaction to the election result.

Just like a lot of people will vote no today as a reaction to the current coalition, rather than thinking about the long term benefits.

 

[spionfox]

Just like a lot of people will vote no today as a reaction to the current coalition, rather than thinking about the long term benefits.

Balderdash. A lot of people, the majority in fact, will vote 'no' because they don't want a system whereby minority groups end up having a greater influence than they deserve.

 

[bocadillo]

Are they?

There was an opinion poll not long after their election that said a majority wanted to change, but that may well have been a knee jerk reaction to the election result.

Just like a lot of people will vote no today as a reaction to the current coalition, rather than thinking about the long term benefits.

Or perhaps they believe that there are no long term benefits.

 

[Jeff]

As i understand it AV will provide a platform where a minority and extremist party could find it easier to come to power?

You must have read the scare stories the No campaign have been putting about. The BNP want their supporters to vote no, because they know it would be more difficult for them to win seats under AV.


Under the current system a party like the BNP could win a seat with 25% of the votes, if the other parties were split evenly. They'd need the support of a lot more people under AV.

 

[Blue Maniac]

Everybody is supposed to vote. I understand that about 5% don't and that they are asked to explain themselves. Those who do not have good reason are usually fined.

I worked with a bloke in Queensland who, at every election, simply wrote '**** off you bunch of ****s' on his ballot paper.

 

[Jeff]

Balderdash. A lot of people, the majority in fact, will vote 'no' because they don't want a system whereby minority groups end up having a greater influence than they deserve.

Which minority groups are you talking about?

 

[spionfox]

As i understand it AV will provide a platform where a minority and extremist party could find it easier to come to power?

You must have read the scare stories the Yes campaign have been putting about.

Surely you mean the NO campaign :icon_wink

 

[Jeff]

Surely you mean the NO campaign :icon_wink

That's what I meant :icon_redf

 

[spionfox]

Which minority groups are you talking about?

Labour mainly :icon_bigg

 

[Darth Vodka]

Didn't Adolf Hitler come to power using a similar AV (PR) system?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

:icon_bigg

 

[bocadillo]

You must have read the scare stories the Yes campaign have been putting about. The BNP want their supporters to vote no, because they know it would be more difficult for them to win seats under AV.


Under the current system a party like the BNP could win a seat with 25% of the votes, if the other parties were split evenly. They'd need the support of a lot more people under AV.

The BNP (and the Communists) want their supporters to vote no because they believe their interests would be better served by STV-MMC (Single Transferable Vote with Multi Member Constituencies), a system which allocates seats much more in line with the proportion of the vote cast for each party. The supporters of the YES campaign try to pretend that AV is the same as proportional representation when it is nothing of the sort.

 

[Jeff]

The supporters of the YES campaign try to pretend that AV is the same as proportional representation when it is nothing of the sort.

Which supporters of the yes campaign are doing that?

I'm not aware of any. But I've not been paying much attention because most politicians talk bollocks.

I would prefer a proper PR system, where the smaller parties can be represented, even if that means parties I detest end up with MPs.

 

[SJN-Fox]

Surely even if the Yes campaign wins, does anyone seriously expect the Government to actually do anything about it? The only reason we're having the referendum is to placate Clegg. The Tories promised a referendum if Clegg climbed into bed with them. He didn't promise to change the system if the yes vote won.

 

[RHYDAL]

Under the current system a party like the BNP could win a seat with 25% of the votes, if the other parties were split evenly. They'd need the support of a lot more people under AV.

Under AV they could get in being the first choice of a lot less than 25% of voters.