R.e.s.p.e.c.t

[Matt_B]

I am very impressed actually that even though Steven alluded to it, this thread has yet to fall victim to Godwin's law. Well played sirs.

 

[Macky]

Would anybody like to dress up as a Nazi and abuse me?

For the love of god Matt, will you ever stop with your fantasies?

 

[Matt_B]

I notice you didn't say "no" there Mackster.

 

[Macky]

I notice you didn't say "no" there Mackster.

I got my jackboots on and they needs some tongue action

 

[syd]

For the record I have never made any comment for or against Richard Dawkins on the forum . The only scholar I have praised on the forum was David Starkey in one thread and my theory is that Syd has confused a distinguished evolutionary biologist with a distinguished historian of the Tudor Court.

Starkey? Is that the amateur who made no reference to new evidence of Edward IV's illegitimacy in the second series of Monarchy, therefore failing to acknowledge the possibility of Richard III being a rightful heir to the throne in 1483? Also completely skimmed over Buckingham's uprising in the same year.

 

[Steven]

Starkey? Is that the amateur who made no reference to new evidence of Edward IV's illegitimacy in the second series of Monarchy, therefore failing to acknowledge the possibility of Richard III being a rightful heir to the throne in 1483? Also completely skimmed over Buckingham's uprising in the same year.

I know Starkey. :icon_roll You're having a laugh. :icon_bigg

 

[Mawsley]

Did anyone see the episode of The Office where Brent ran off every other minute in order to look up information and appear intelligent?

 

[Micky]

Intelligence is measured by those around you. If you spend your days with idiots you seal your own fate.

 

[Leesoh]

whoever the **** Chandler is I really don't know

Really? For someone who gives the impression they're cleverer than the rest of us, I would have expected a better comeback. After all, it's pretty easy to find out....

 

[Macky]

Dostoyevski, Fyodor Mikhaylovich Dostoyevsky, born 1821, died 1881. Very interesting all that stuff about him being exiled in Siberia for four years innit?

 

[Mawsley]

Dostoyevski, Fyodor Mikhaylovich Dostoyevsky, born 1821, died 1881. Very interesting all that stuff about him being exiled in Siberia for four years innit?

:icon_lol:

 

[indierich06]

Did anyone see the episode of The Office where Brent ran off every other minute in order to look up information and appear intelligent?

Syd's thrown a kettle over a pub, what've you done?

 

[syd]

I've got so much to tell people, if only they'd listen...

 

[alex]

I've got so much to tell people, if only they'd listen...

Just like David Koresh..

 

[Macky]

Just like David Koresh..

I think syd is David Icke, that's what the Leicester connection is. There are other similarities as well.

 

[spionfox]

Dostoyevski, Fyodor Mikhaylovich Dostoyevsky, born 1821, died 1881. Very interesting all that stuff about him being exiled in Siberia for four years innit?

Claude achille debussy. died, 1918
Christof viliborg kralk. died, 1787
Carl maria von weber. not at all well, 1825. died, 1826
Giacomo meyerbeer. still alive, 1863. not still alive, 1864
Modest mussorgsky. 1880, going to parties. no fun anymore, 1881
Johann nepomuck hummel. chattin' away 19 'an a dozen with his friends down at the pub every evenin', 1836
1837, nothing

 

[Boy Genius]

Claude achille debussy. died, 1918
Christof viliborg kralk. died, 1787
Carl maria von weber. not at all well, 1825. died, 1826
Giacomo meyerbeer. still alive, 1863. not still alive, 1864
Modest mussorgsky. 1880, going to parties. no fun anymore, 1881
Johann nepomuck hummel. chattin' away 19 'an a dozen with his friends down at the pub every evenin', 1836
1837, nothing

Captain Beefheart, died 2010, why hasn't the deathlist been updated yet?

 

[Miles Away]

Nice moves Syd.

 

[David Gwilliam]

Starkey? Is that the amateur who made no reference to new evidence of Edward IV's illegitimacy in the second series of Monarchy, therefore failing to acknowledge the possibility of Richard III being a rightful heir to the throne in 1483? Also completely skimmed over Buckingham's uprising in the same year.

Wow! Any one who can dismiss David Starkey as a historian has to be learned.

Surely Starkey was very well paid - perhaps he tells the Inland Revenue that he is an amateur.

Apologies for those not interested in History but I am not a medievalist and I am keen to learn from Syd.

Allegations of illegitimacy are serious but do not necessarily debar someone from the throne. As Starkey has pointed out in another context Elizabeth I had been declared a bastard in 1536 but ascended the throne in 1558. She never had the bastardy ruled out because in Starkey's words "Accession eliminates bastardy. "

My understanding is that Warwick had actively supported Edward''s claim in the early years of the reign and only rasied the allegation after he had lost influence to the Woodville's. In 1461 Edward had been acclaimed, crowned and accepted by Parliament (and Warwick).

If you are right and Edward IV was debarred then surely the rightful King in 1461 would have been George Duke of Clarence and not Richard III.

At no time did Richard III claim that Edward IV was illegitimate. Indeed he was a loyal subject who fought alongside his brother.

Richard IIIs claim to the throne came through the allegation that Edward V was illegitimate not Edward IV.
Surely Syd, you are not confusing your Edward's.

If my memory is correct you are right about Buckingham's rebellion being left out of the TV series - it is certainly left out of Starkey's book. It had little if any effect on the changing role of the monarchy which was the theme of series and book. For that reason Richard the Lionheart is skimmed over. He may have been important and interesting but he did not greatly affect the monarchy. Starkey was not doing a history of Britain but of the way the monarchy developed.

There is another reason for leaving out Buckingham's revolt. It is not that important. I may be wrong but I think that in Simon Schama's volume on the Middle Ages he also leaves out the question of Edward IVs possible illegitimacy and leaves out Buckingham's revolt. I suppose you do not rate Schama either.

There is a tendency for the word amateur is be used as an insult. In fact the word comes from the Latin "to love" and describes people who do something for the love of it rather than as a profession. History is full of amateurs studying family trees, local history, old railways etc. I have a lot of time for amateur historians though |I would not class David Starkey among them.

Having written a long post on a topic far removed from Leiceter players hospital visits I will make this my last post on this thread. However, I will enjoy any further enlightenment Syd can throw on the 15th century and I promise him that I will believe every word.

 

[Macky]

Wow! Any one who can dismiss David Starkey as a historian has to be learned.

I'm no fan of Starkey, as we've discussed before, he brings out a violent reaction in me, but you can't fault his credentials or knowledge on the subject.

Having written a long post on a topic far removed from Leiceter players hospital visits I will make this my last post on this thread.

Longest post I've read in a long time. :icon_bigg

I will enjoy any further enlightenment Syd can throw on the 15th century and I promise him that I will believe every word.

Never believe anybody, in fact, I don't even believe you Mr david