Wales manager Gary Speed confirmed dead

[GazLCFC]

And his wife, colleagues etc. I understand why people say it is selfish even though I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment.

Not want to make light of this tragic incident or your similar loss Matt but this post is very different to your tweet earlier.

 

[Lincs Fox]

A healthy, happy person doesn't suddenly decide to take his own life.

Something was clearly wrong in Gary Speed's mind and whatever happened between leaving the Football Focus studio and the early hours of this morning was the trigger.

I don't intend to argue about the finer points on this thread because under the circumstances I think it would be crass, but I don't think it's anything of a leap to say this poor bloke was unwell.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

Typical response from the usual rent-a-mob types, because I don't bow down at the alter of famous footballers then I'm ill informed.

If the rumours are true as to why he offed himself I expect a raft of apologies, but I won't hold my breath.

If the rumours of hi sexuality are true it doesn't make it any less depressing or selfish. The fact we live in a society where a gay man has to feel he has to marry a woman is depressing enough. When we're in a society when both the gutter press think that someone being gay is some kind news and when that news becoming public would lead to a man feeling he has to take his own life is an utterly depressing thought.

 

[Blue Maniac]

Typical response from the usual rent-a-mob types, because I don't bow down at the alter of famous footballers then I'm ill informed.

If the rumours are true as to why he offed himself I expect a raft of apologies, but I won't hold my breath.

You'll get **** all of the sort and rightly so you complete cock end. It doesn't matter whether the cause was long-term illness or some scumbag threatening to reveal details of his private life, which was none of anybody else's business. The obvious fact is he was pushed into a corner by someone or something, and the only way he could see out was to do this. Why are you being wilfully ignorant?

If anything good can come out of such circumstances it must surely be to finally rid this country of the scum press and their disgusting practices. Not something I necessarily think possible btw.

Wouldn't the world be a much better place without this ludicrous idea that the details of people's private lives become public property the moment they achieve some degree of success or appear on tv?

 

[SwedeFox]

You'll get **** all of the sort and rightly so you complete cock end. It doesn't matter whether the cause was long-term illness or some scumbag threatening to reveal details of his private life, which was none of anybody else's business. The obvious fact is he was pushed into a corner by someone or something, and the only way he could see out was to do this. Why are you being wilfully ignorant?

So you don't think that suicide can ever be a selfish act, the easy way out, then? Whatever the reasons behind it, suicide is never selfish, is that correct?

 

[Lincs Fox]

I would argue that suicide is usually borne out of absolute desperation and hopelessness more than selfishness myself.

It might appear selfish to us but until you've been in that state of mind, it's unfair to judge those who have too harshly.

 

[Blue Maniac]

So you don't think that suicide can ever be a selfish act, the easy way out, then? Whatever the reasons behind it, suicide is never selfish, is that correct?

I'm sure in some bizarre, twisted, enormously unlikely set of circumstances it can be.

 

[gregs_y2k]

If the rumours of hi sexuality are true it doesn't make it any less depressing or selfish. The fact we live in a society where a gay man has to feel he has to marry a woman is depressing enough. When we're in a society when both the gutter press think that someone being gay is some kind news and when that news becoming public would lead to a man feeling he has to take his own life is an utterly depressing thought.

If it is true it's just another reason to stop buying the tabloid press. His decision to commit suicide based on this says a lot about the stigmatism of homosexuality in football and sport in general and doesn't make his actions more selfish at all so I'm with Prof on this. If anything it makes the whole situation all the more tragic that in this day and age this can still happen.

Even if he had had relationships with men, doesn't mean he was gay and living a lie, he could very well have been bi-sexual. If true it just goes to show how much damage a publication can do to lives just for a 'scoop' to sell a few papers.

 

[Realist]

You'll get **** all of the sort and rightly so you complete cock end. It doesn't matter whether the cause was long-term illness or some scumbag threatening to reveal details of his private life, which was none of anybody else's business. The obvious fact is he was pushed into a corner by someone or something, and the only way he could see out was to do this. Why are you being wilfully ignorant?

I often find name calling a mature way to discuss a disagreement of opinion.

Footballers/celebrities are in the public eye, their every move is pored over with a fine tooth comb, and if there has been some naughtiness, it will come out. Are the media to blame for reporting it, or the footballers/celebs involved to blame for doing it?

 

[Miles Away]

I have to admit my first instinct was that this may be related to his sexuality...which only makes it all the more depressing if true.

The fact is that sexuality in sports is utterly outdated. How many openly gay professional sportsmen can you name? Now...how many actually gay sportsmen do you think there are? The discrepancy between those two numbers tell a big story.

What a terrible indictment of sport that a man must conceal his beliefs...and then feel compelled to suicide when in fear of being exposed.

I really hope this isn't the case.

There has never been an openly gay NFL or NBA player... Really?

Poor git.

 

[Miles Away]

And realist: while your points have some slim, slim amount of legitimacy, your posts are utterly tone deaf.

Gary Speed killed himself, his family is left torn to pieces. What do you find in those facts to warrant a joke?

 

[gregs_y2k]

I often find name calling a mature way to discuss a disagreement of opinion.

Footballers/celebrities are in the public eye, their every move is pored over with a fine tooth comb, and if there has been some naughtiness, it will come out. Are the media to blame for reporting it, or the footballers/celebs involved to blame for doing it?

Sport starts who actively court the press and bathe themselves in the limelight, do deserve it when it backfires in their faces such as Ashley Cole and Beckham, but people who happen to play sports and keep themselves to themselves deserve their private lives to remain private.

 

[Realist]

This may be a bit left of centre here but before you condemn, think about what I'm saying.

Have you ever thought the reason some people who are gay don't admit it is because of the outrageous gay nancy types such as Louis Spence, Alan Carr & Graham Norton? Their over the top flamboyance gives perhaps a distorted view of how gay people really are, and as a consequence it makes it harder for gay footballers/sports stars to come out? A friend of mine has been openly gay for over 20 years, and he is positively embarrassed at the antics of those I have mentioned.

 

[Realist]

And realist: while your points have some slim, slim amount of legitimacy, your posts are utterly tone deaf.

Gary Speed killed himself, his family is left torn to pieces. What do you find in those facts to warrant a joke?

Because I don't go around waiting to be offended or outraged on behalf of others.

 

[Blue Maniac]

I often find name calling a mature way to discuss a disagreement of opinion.

You're wrong, it's not. All it does is allow one person to inform another of their status as, for example, a complete cock end.

Footballers/celebrities are in the public eye, their every move is pored over with a fine tooth comb, and if there has been some naughtiness, it will come out. Are the media to blame for reporting it, or the footballers/celebs involved to blame for doing it?

That's not even a real question, surely? Nothing anyone does behind closed doors is the slightest sliver of anyone else's business. At all. Ever. Regardless of what their job happens to be.

 

[Blue Maniac]

Because I don't go around waiting to be offended or outraged on behalf of others.

That's nothing to do with it. You don't seem to even know what this conversation is about!

 

[Graz]

I think suicide is/can be a selfish act.... But, it's an act that comes out of utter desperation and believing there is no other option.

Selfish is the wrong word really. Because I'm sure people do consider the consequences for their loved ones (so it's not entirely selfish, in that they are thinking about other people still). And yet despite that, ending life still seems as if is the best thing to do.

THAT is why it's a tragedy anytime. That feeling of utter hopelessness and being lost and literally not being able to find anything else that can keep you going, nothing that can make you want to carry on, the feeling that nobody can help drag you out of it.

Family, friends, colleagues and acquaintances will always wonder what they should have done, what they could have done. And that is why it appears to be selfish. But more often than not, the answer is that there is nothing that they could have done. It just seems like the best way out. Desperation.

I've kind of lost my train of thought there... I had more to say but now can't think what it was. I don't even know if what I wrote make sense.

Bottom is line that suicide is horrible for anyone near it, but it's not a decision made lightly I'm sure. More needs to be done to help people.

 

[Miles Away]

Because I don't go around waiting to be offended or outraged on behalf of others.

No you go around waiting for an opportunity to offend or outrage. Trolling I think it's called.

I won't call you names, if only because BM is better at it than I am.

I'll call your comments callous, misguided and without empathy.

This is a grim story, with grim consequences.

 

[Realist]

You're wrong, it's not. All it does is allow one person to inform another of their status as, for example, a complete cock end.

I often find it indicates the intellect of the person calling names.

That's not even a real question, surely? Nothing anyone does behind closed doors is the slightest sliver of anyone else's business. At all. Ever. Regardless of what their job happens to be.

I'm not saying I disagree, but the media is what it is, and those in the public eye know the score before they get up to whatever antics they decide to get up.

If we are to take the moral high ground about the media, then we should be morally outraged that the John Terry affair was published.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

This may be a bit left of centre here but before you condemn, think about what I'm saying.

Have you ever thought the reason some people who are gay don't admit it is because of the outrageous gay nancy types such as Louis Spence, Alan Carr & Graham Norton? Their over the top flamboyance gives perhaps a distorted view of how gay people really are, and as a consequence it makes it harder for gay footballers/sports stars to come out? A friend of mine has been openly gay for over 20 years, and he is positively embarrassed at the antics of those I have mentioned.

Not at all. It shouldn't matter whether a gay person fits the gay stereotype or not, the "over the flamboyance nancy boys" comment is one which is derived from a heterosexist society in the first place.

There are also plenty of famous gay people who don't fit the stereotype, it doesn't matter either way and I don't think the fact some people do fit the stereotype has anything to do with the heterosexist culture of professional sport.