In Holloway's Defense.....

[newtonfox]

I have used to term "out of his depth", but what does this really mean?

He is crap! simple as. A good manager would get results from his players and he would then not be out his depth.

Spot on BG

 

[Heineken Matt]

I did, but to talk to people that are judging him on a footballing level. You have already nigh on admitted to us that you are judging him as a "bloke" before judging him as a Manager.

I don't know him on a personal level, nor do I know much about his personality, you obviously do. So therefore I'm not in a position to get involved in a debate with you, I can only listen to you.

Definately a career in politics for you Melts, waffle a bit and avoid answering the question. Vote for Melts.

 

[Melton Fox]

Definately a career in politics for you Melts, waffle a bit and avoid answering the question. Vote for Melts.

If you've read the title of the thread, and the posts I've made explaining the information I'm searching for, then I'm sure you'll fully understand the theory of "avoiding the question".

 

[Polar Bear]

we all fell into the same trap of wanting instant success after MM bought the Club.

No we didn't. Neither I nor anyone I knew did, in fact.

 

[jazzfox]

Right, I'm obviously missing something here. I've been asking the question since January and I still haven't had a satisfactory answer. So I'll ask it in a different format.

Why should Ian Holloway be our Manager for the 2008/2009 season?

Now I'm not asking for the what he did at Plymouth answer, because I can give examples of other clubs he's managed to counterbalance that one, and he isn't the Plymouth Manager. Nor am I asking about not sacking another Manager, because stability is only worth having when you're in a league position worthy of being stable in.

So, based on what he's achieved so far in his tenure at Leicester City, why should Ian Holloway be the Manager for the 2008/2009 season?

Educate me, please!!!!

..would love to defend Ollie, have done all along, but have to admit, if we do drop down next season we will need a bit of a hard line manger, one who has got the motivational skills I thought Ollie had, so if he stays, he needs to change his style a bit, think the players are pretty confident that he is a good bloke and have the attitude 'ah well, didn't quite work, Ollie will be upset but will give us another chance 'cause he knows it's not all our fault'... so enter Billy ' What the F*%k do you think you are doing' Davis... he'll stand no nonsense, and bring back this fear of letting the manager down Fergie has, so let's take 2 years step back to step forward a fresh.... bring in Billy, if we are going to change, and let's roll our sleeves up and get on with it !!!

 

[Polar Bear]

As for this thread, the only argument I can see in favour of Holloway is that sacking him will cost yet more money and send us deeper into debt.

 

[alex]

No we didn't. Neither I nor anyone I knew did, in fact.

Nor I, but i do remember thinking after the Wolves game last season, that things were surely never going to be that bad ever again? What a prick.

 

[Redditch Fox]

Stop looking for the holy grail, the manager that is the answer to all our prayers - he isn't there - we all fell into the same trap of wanting instant success after MM bought the Club.

I don't think that is in anyway true.

Only naive people thought there would be instant success. Even Mandaric himself talked about a three years plan - but I do think supporters expected some improvement given the money forked out on new players.

It really isn't about finding a "manager that is the answer to all our prayers", it's about having a manager in place who can generally get the best out of the players available to him - and can exercise decent judgement on acquisitions.

I can't imagine how anyone can think that Holloway meets the criterion of getting the best out of his players. I fully appreciate that his personality is one that the very young and not very bright like to identify with - partly because they have no 'heroes' or personalities on the pitch these days - but as for competence, anyone who thinks Holloway is up to the mark is just having a larf.

 

[Boy Genius]

Stop looking for the holy grail, the manager that is the answer to all our prayers - he isn't there - we all fell into the same trap of wanting instant success after MM bought the Club.

I don't think that is in anyway true.

Only naive people thought there would be instant success. Even Mandaric himself talked about a three years plan - but I do think supporters expected some improvement given the money forked out on new players.

It really isn't about finding a "manager that is the answer to all our prayers", it's about having a manager in place who can generally get the best out of the players available to him - and can exercise decent judgement on acquisitions.

I can't imagine how anyone can think that Holloway meets the criterion of getting the best out of his players. I fully appreciate that his personality is one that the very young and not very bright like to identify with - partly because they have no 'heroes' or personalities on the pitch these days - but as for competence, anyone who thinks Holloway is up to the mark is just having a larf.

exactly RF, only dimwits would have expected instant success, but it is not unreasonable to expect a slight improvement, and to see the players motivated is it?

 

[The Old Fox]

In Holloway's defence; he is not alone in leading an under achieving team. Only Micky Adams emerges with any credibility as a Leicester manager post O'Neill. That is a fact the causes for which we need to understand .
I believe that a large part of the problem is that players are regularly signed upon three year contracts. The leader evaporates in three months and these players are not flavour of the month with the new incumbent of the manager's chair who, not unreasonably, wants to build a team in his own likeness.
The players are on a good salary, which no other team will match, so they stay as a no hope reserves with no impetus to train hard, bringing down the morale of the squad.
I do not think Holloway is the World's greatest manager, but he is the best we are likely to get at the moment. He should stay next season; whichever league we are in, and build a team that cares about Leicester. That has to be developed over time: you cannot just bring a new management team and twenty new players in on 31st July and expect loyalty by 1st August. This team needs fine tuning, not de-constructing AGAIN!

 

[Jeff]

do not blame Holloway for the short comings of a club in turmoil behind the scenes and who have a squad of underachievers.

Why can't we blame him for the under achievements of the squad?

Eleven players currently in the squad were brought in by Holloway.

 

[WALSHIESTACKLE]

In Holloway's defence; he is not alone in leading an under achieving team. Only Micky Adams emerges with any credibility as a Leicester manager post O'Neill. That is a fact the causes for which we need to understand .
I believe that a large part of the problem is that players are regularly signed upon three year contracts. The leader evaporates in three months and these players are not flavour of the month with the new incumbent of the manager's chair who, not unreasonably, wants to build a team in his own likeness.
The players are on a good salary, which no other team will match, so they stay as a no hope reserves with no impetus to train hard, bringing down the morale of the squad.
I do not think Holloway is the World's greatest manager, but he is the best we are likely to get at the moment. He should stay next season; whichever league we are in, and build a team that cares about Leicester. That has to be developed over time: you cannot just bring a new management team and twenty new players in on 31st July and expect loyalty by 1st August. This team needs fine tuning, not de-constructing AGAIN!

What kind of stupidity are you basing that on?? FFS we are in a worse position than when he became manager. He is a bad manager who never accepts he has done anything wrong. If he is the best we can hope for then we may as well give up supporting because there ain't gonna be too many glory days in the near future!!

 

[Melton Fox]

I agree with the theory that we have to stick by a Manager, and have faith in him to come good.

But to acheive that loyalty, the Manager in question should show at least some glimpse of hope and ability in his first four months in charge. We saw that in Worthington, we let it go. OK, we might not be in the play offs, but I'd wager a decent monetary figure that we wouldn't be going into the last game of the season facing relegation square in the face if we'd offered him the job.

 

[The Old Fox]

What kind of stupidity are you basing that on?? FFS we are in a worse position than when he became manager. He is a bad manager who never accepts he has done anything wrong. If he is the best we can hope for then we may as well give up supporting because there ain't gonna be too many glory days in the near future!!

May I turn this back upon you? Who do you foresee as coming to a team, at best having successfully fought relegation from the Championship for four consecutive occasions and, at worst.....
If your chosen candidate is a "promising" but unproven option, I would refer you to my point about stability. Changes should only be made with a strong possibility of improvement, not as a reaction to disappointment.

 

[Melton Fox]

75 posts into this thread and there still isn't a sound "on the pitch/in the squad" reason why Holloway should stay.

It's all to do with not being able to get anybody better, him being a nice person, nobody wants the job etc et. If I was Holloway and I was reading the opinions of my own supporters**, I'd walk.

edit:

** Not Leicester supporters, his own personal supporters.

 

[WALSHIESTACKLE]

May I turn this back upon you? Who do you foresee as coming to a team, at best having successfully fought relegation from the Championship for four consecutive occasions and, at worst.....
If your chosen candidate is a "promising" but unproven option, I would refer you to my point about stability. Changes should only be made with a strong possibility of improvement, not as a reaction to disappointment.

If stability means another relegation fight or an average season in DIV 3 then where is your arguement? Strong possibility of improvement? Based on what? It would be criminal to keep someone here for stability purposes. There has been nothing to suggest it will be better next season under Ollie so far so why do you think it will be?

 

[Boy Genius]

75 posts into this thread and there still isn't a sound "on the pitch/in the squad" reason why Holloway should stay.

It's all to with not being able to get anybody better, him being a nice person, nobody wants the job etc et. If I was Holloway and I was reading the opinions of my own supporters**, I'd walk.

edit:

** Not Leicester supporters, his own personal supporters.

Then just in case Holloway reads this........


Holloway please do the right thing and fcuk off.

 

[highland fox]

Good post Sir.

Why is it ? A Manager is judged by his results not what a nice funny guy he is.The results under Holloway have been atrocious.If you want to keep him because he's in your opinion a nice likeable guy then thats fair enough but face facts under IH's guidance our results have been woeful.You lovers of Hollway can dress it up all you like and if you want him to remain for the sake of stability then thats fair enough.
Holloway provokes Hero Worship amongst some on here and they fail to critise him for anything.To be honest I'm sick to death of discuss it because the Holloway Lovers will never ever see anything bad about the man and will always be someone else fault,never Hollways.

 

[From Gradel to Grave]

I've said before that the players he's brought in were decent signings Hendrie and Bell have been excellent and Oakley and Howard while I've been disappointed with them should excel at this level and I'm at a loss why we've continued the downward trajectory since they've been here.

It's difficult to argue in our current position but I'd like to think Mandaric can see what he's been doing and that is why he's stuck with him. You only have to look at Hereford who went down to the Conference under Graham Turner, stuck with him and been promoted twice since then. Everton stuck with Moyes even when they failed so spectacularly the season after they qualified for the Champion's League and he's taken them back to being a decent team again.

Holloway's got rid of some of the crap left over from the summer splurge, and we have a more balanced squad and team. Everyone says on paper we should be so much better that's why it's so frustrating for us all that they continually fail to deliver.

 

[Redditch Fox]

.

I do not think Holloway is the World's greatest manager, but he is the best we are likely to get at the moment. He should stay next season; whichever league we are in, and build a team that cares about Leicester.

I don't think any business could suceed with that attitude.

What you seem to be saying is that we have to put up with a loser because we couldn't find a winner anyway. Sorry, but that isn't good enough. We all know that Mandaric finds it a problem to attract a decent manager - but that is something that has to be attempted.

As for building a team "that cares about Leicester." You need to build on solid foundations. A decent manager is one of those foundations and we don't have that. The basis of a team is another necessary foundation and we don't have that either. I think you may well have it wrong in terms of who will be around next season. The likes of Kisnorbo are not likely to want to be around if we are relegated. We could well be left with the worst of the existing dross.