Post Match Leicester 0 Millwall 3

[Profondo Rosso]

My belief in Eriksson's ability to get us promoted is fast disappearing. Like many others I have for weeks being bemoaning our lack of creativity and width. Nobody in the midfield seems willing (or perhaps able) to move into space. We get to the final third of the pitch and the movement stops. I never feel that we are going to score when we go forward. We are entirely predictable. The most frustrating aspect of this for me is that Eriksson is well capable of getting us playing fast, fluid, attacking football.

There was a spell last season during which I felt we would score every time we attacked. From which I can only conclude that he has gone this way by choice. I rate Eriksson highly as a manager. But I really don't think he has what it takes to get us promoted as things stand. But I don't advocate sacking him just yet. As much as failing to win promotion would rightly be regarded as abject failure (given our expenditure), I don't see who else is available that could turn is into a potent attacking force with the current personnel.

I also think that there are problems at the club which run far deeper than that which manifests itself on the pitch. There is a problem of attitudes at the club, starting from the very top. The owners have clearly meant well, and haven't hesitated to spend their money. Unfortunately their approach is naive in the extreme. Spending money alone will not bring about success. And nor is combining such spending with the biggest name managers available necessarily a recipe for glory. I should declare my interest by admitting that I have always been cynical about these owners anyway. I dislike what they have brought to the club and I think that eventually they will become fed up and leave us in real financial trouble. But that aside, I believe that they need to change their approach.

If it is true that before their arrival they demanded the replacement of Nigel Pearson by Paulo Sousa in spite of the former's success here, then I'm afraid that speaks volumes for their lack of knowledge of the game. Even if that is not true the appointment of Eriksson suggests to me that they are easily seduced by football's celebrities ahead of managers who have a history of sustained (relative) success in English football (I believe Eriksson was an excellent England manager, but international football is a different animal to club football). Fortunately such attitudes can change. If Eriksson fails they may well learn that the fame of a prospective manager is not the most important consideration. I certainly hope so.

Pretty much my thoughts spot on. As said earlier, I like Eriksson and want him to do well, but really, for the situation we are in I'm just not sure he's suited and, in this division, I'd take Pearson back in a heart beat. The problem is, I really can't see our owners wanting anyone other than a big name manager and if Eriksson were to go I could only see us making another big name "celebrity" appointment who will have absolutely no knowledge of the players and teams in this division, rather than someone of a Pearson/Coppell/Warnock ilk who know this division inside out.

 

[spionfox]

Teams like Millwall are happy to sit and try and snatch a result

Three nil is hardly what I would call "snatching a result".

 

[Profondo Rosso]

And I should say, when I say I'm starting to wonder if Eriksson has the knowledge of this division I'm not one of those "you need a side with grit and a "plan B" to get out of this division" people, because plenty of teams have proven otherwise in recent years.

What I mean is, I'm not sure he really has any idea about how good a player must be to be a great Championship player, what the "bar" or "standard" is so to speak. I mean, if you watch a player in training or the odd match you may see some of his best attributes and strengths, but I can't imagine his knowledge of Championship football is very good and I can't imagine he'd have watched much Championship football before he came here, so he doesn't really have anything to compare it too. He doesn't know how good a player has to be in certain areas (i.e. whatever area that makes that player effective, whether it be his pace, his aerial ability, his passing ability, his positioning etc. etc.) and the player as a whole (balancing out his strengths and weaknesses).

The fact is, the best managers in this league, pick good players on the cheap from the lower leagues or abroad because they recognise that that player's attributes will fit in to a promotion chasing Championship side or whatever, Pearson and Walsh were particularly good at this, whereas SGE doesn't seem to have much experience in knowing what kind of level these players would be to get on.

To go back to what both Hazzman and Lee were saying, the problem is, his hand has been forced somewhat by our owners who rather naively seem to think you can just throw money at players and hope they will come together. SGE hasn't had a chance to really learn the level and see what kind of players would do well here, as a result he's done the sensible thing really and instead of trying to learn the level and the ability level of the players for a couple of years (as he has not been afforded this opportuninty by our owners), he's either brought in a load of players he's worked with before and knows how good they are or just brought in players who have done well at Championship level in the past.

That may be a load of bs, as I can't read SGE's mind and neither do I know the ins and outs of the transfer policy, that's just what I'm getting the impression of, as an outsider.

 

[spionfox]

the problem is, his hand has been forced somewhat by our owners who rather naively seem to think you can just throw money at players and hope they will come together

The owners stumped up the cash. To the best of my knowledge they didn't dictate who Sven should buy or what tactics and formation he should use.

Why all this seeming antipathy towards the owners? (Not getting at you PR, just using your post.) Yes, they are naive if they think that a pot of money is a guarantee of success but it should sure as hell help.

 

[Mike - True Blue Tinter]

I think some of you writing this stuff need to have a word with yourselves.

Today QPR beat Chelsea. Will there be serious calls for Villas-Boas to be sacked? No. Manure tonked 6-1 by Man City. Will there be serious calls for Ferguson to be sacked? No.

We are upset because we saw how good we were against Derby and wished/assumed we would always play like that and beat anyone and everyone.

Yesterday was a bad day at the office for players and manager alike and I am certain they are all genuinely sorry that they all let themselves and us down.

After the Derby game did we think the players and manager were good enough to get promoted? Probably, most of us, yes, if they carried on playing like that.

So since the Derby game, have either the players or the manager become crap? No.

Sven has some consistency issues to sort out, and from his post-match comments, he got it wrong when he thought the same team were fit/good enough to perform in their third game in six days.

There aren't any motivation issues. From Gally's RL comments it is quite clear that the players have huge respect for Sven. Huge respect is all the motivation you need to perform for someone.

Sven needs to sort it, as does Ferguson and Villas-Boas, but none of the three managers needs replacing.

 

[Lako42]

I think some of you writing this stuff need to have a word with yourselves.

Today QPR beat Chelsea. Will there be serious calls for Villas-Boas to be sacked? No. Manure tonked 6-1 by Man City. Will there be serious calls for Ferguson to be sacked? No.

We are upset because we saw how good we were against Derby and wished/assumed we would always play like that and beat anyone and everyone.

Yesterday was a bad day at the office for players and manager alike and I am certain they are all genuinely sorry that they all let themselves and us down.

After the Derby game did we think the players and manager were good enough to get promoted? Probably, most of us, yes, if they carried on playing like that.

So since the Derby game, have either the players or the manager become crap? No.

Sven has some consistency issues to sort out, and from his post-match comments, he got it wrong when he thought the same team were fit/good enough to perform in their third game in six days.

There aren't any motivation issues. From Gally's RL comments it is quite clear that the players have huge respect for Sven. Huge respect is all the motivation you need to perform for someone.

Sven needs to sort it, as does Ferguson and Villas-Boas, but none of the three managers needs replacing.

I'm not part of the Sven out brigade, but unfortunately the Derby game seems to be the exception not the rule.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

The owners stumped up the cash. To the best of my knowledge they didn't dictate who Sven should buy or what tactics and formation he should use.

Why all this seeming antipathy towards the owners? (Not getting at you PR, just using your post.) Yes, they are naive if they think that a pot of money is a guarantee of success but it should sure as hell help.

They have dictated in a way though by basically telling him they expect promotion or he's out the door. How is he supposed to get to grips with the level and know what kind of ability in players is needed in such a short space of time?

Let me put this another way, if you went do to watch some local amateur side tomorrow, could you tell if the players were good enough to be in a top semi-professional side? Personally, I think you'd have to have watched semi-professional football for years until you knew what kind of ability was needed in certain areas (in terms of player's individual strength and their whole round game), yet SGE has been dumped in the Championship, a level I really can't imagine he knows much about and has been told he has to buy players who are good enough to get out of it within less than a year, I'm just not sure he'd really know what kind of ability level is needed.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

I think some of you writing this stuff need to have a word with yourselves.

Today QPR beat Chelsea. Will there be serious calls for Villas-Boas to be sacked? No. Manure tonked 6-1 by Man City. Will there be serious calls for Ferguson to be sacked? No.

We are upset because we saw how good we were against Derby and wished/assumed we would always play like that and beat anyone and everyone.

Yesterday was a bad day at the office for players and manager alike and I am certain they are all genuinely sorry that they all let themselves and us down.

After the Derby game did we think the players and manager were good enough to get promoted? Probably, most of us, yes, if they carried on playing like that.

So since the Derby game, have either the players or the manager become crap? No.

Sven has some consistency issues to sort out, and from his post-match comments, he got it wrong when he thought the same team were fit/good enough to perform in their third game in six days.

There aren't any motivation issues. From Gally's RL comments it is quite clear that the players have huge respect for Sven. Huge respect is all the motivation you need to perform for someone.

Sven needs to sort it, as does Ferguson and Villas-Boas, but none of the three managers needs replacing.

Tbf, Villas-Boas isn't in the bottom half after 13 games.

I'm not doubting SGE's managerial ability or motivational issues as said I think he's a good manager, far too good for us, but that's the problem, the thing I'm beginning to doubt is whether he has the knowledge of what kind of level players have to be at to be a player in a Championship promotion chasing side.

I don't want SGE out, I want him to stay and to succeed, I'm not questioning his tactics or his motivation, I'm not questioning his track record, but the fact all of his signings bar Peltier who Fazakerley had worked with before, were either big name Championship players or players he personally had worked with before makes me think that he possibly didn't have much knowledge of the kind of level the players are at and I can't help wondering if he really knew how good these players would be at Championship level when he bought them.

This isn't Football Manager of FIFA where you if a player has attributes over a certain number he is good enough for that level, you cannot tell how good a player will play at a different level that easily irl. Could he watch a player and say "yes, I can tell he will cut it at a promotion chasing Championship side because he has x, y and z"? Did he really have the experience of the level that the players in this division were at?

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

To me football is football. If we can't hope to be successful in the Championship then I'm damn well sure we wouldn't be very successful in the Premier League. Sven has no excuses now, this is his team, he has spent alot of money on it and he knew the job was a demanding one when he came here to take it. Sven knows what it takes to win games at the top levels and that will apply to this level just as any other IMO. I doubt we'll go up this year but I think it's just a case of allowing the squad to gel and being patient with the manager. Sven's the key man, a good manager can get a team of misfits playing well no doubt - and we seem to have a bunch of misfits at the minute so we are the ideal proving ground!

 

[spionfox]

to me football is football. If we can't hope to be successful in the championship then i'm damn well sure we wouldn't be very successful in the premier league. sven has no excuses now, this is his team, he has spent alot of money on it and he knew the job was a demanding one when he came here to take it. Sven knows what it takes to win games at the top levels and that will apply to this level just as any other imo. I doubt we'll go up this year but i think it's just a case of allowing the squad to gel and being patient with the manager. Sven's the key man, a good manager can get a team of misfits playing well no doubt - and we seem to have a bunch of misfits at the minute so we are the ideal proving ground!

q.e.d.

 

[Matt_B]

Tbf, Villas-Boas isn't in the bottom half after 13 games.

I'm not doubting SGE's managerial ability or motivational issues as said I think he's a good manager, far too good for us, but that's the problem, the thing I'm beginning to doubt is whether he has the knowledge of what kind of level players have to be at to be a player in a Championship promotion chasing side.

I don't want SGE out, I want him to stay and to succeed, I'm not questioning his tactics or his motivation, I'm not questioning his track record, but the fact all of his signings bar Peltier who Fazakerley had worked with before, were either big name Championship players or players he personally had worked with before makes me think that he possibly didn't have much knowledge of the kind of level the players are at and I can't help wondering if he really knew how good these players would be at Championship level when he bought them.

This isn't Football Manager of FIFA where you if a player has attributes over a certain number he is good enough for that level, you cannot tell how good a player will play at a different level that easily irl. Could he watch a player and say "yes, I can tell he will cut it at a promotion chasing Championship side because he has x, y and z"? Did he really have the experience of the level that the players in this division were at?

So are you really saying that Fernandes, Nugent, Beckford and Johnson, all of whom have played at Premier League level, are not good enough for the championship?

Oh, and AVB may not be in the bottom half, but he is 6 points from where he wants to be which is top, we are 5 points from the automatic promotions spots.

 

[Kingy_85]

For gods sake... I cannot stand this FOR & AGAINST B.S!!!

Will someone put me out of my misery.

 

[LeeCovFox]

You see, I agree that Sven is capable of getting us promoted if he is given two or three seasons to do it. And if I'm understanding his posts correctly so does PR. But I am almost certain that he won't do so this season. And that really is all that matters. Because I don't see the owners keeping him on board if we don't go up. I'd be far more comfortable if I believed that he had two or three seasons to build a side in his own image and learn the ropes a bit at this level.

 

[Matt_B]

Can I ask those that question if he knows what type of player is needed for this level; he has managed and been successful in several countries, in several leagues and for several different international teams. Are you arguing that they all needed the same type of player and that the championship is alone in its style?

 

[Hazzman]

There aren't any motivation issues. From Gally's RL comments it is quite clear that the players have huge respect for Sven. Huge respect is all the motivation you need to perform for someone.

Probably because nearly all of the squad he took over have been given contract extensions and pay rises.

AVB and Ferguson are nowhere comparable to our situation.

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

q.e.d.

To be fair, the last sentiment was meant tongue in cheek..

 

[Hazzman]

Firstly sir, I congratulate you: you were able to spot the players who have settled in quickly, and currently appear to be the better signings. My next question; would these players have signed for a run of the mill team? Schmeichel in particular, may have felt that Leeds was a better option to your squad.

Peltier was from Huddersfield, a step up.
Nugent was on a freebie and there was very little rumour of him joining elsewhere.
Schmeichel was our 2nd signing in June which suggests he was willing to move regardless.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

So are you really saying that Fernandes, Nugent, Beckford and Johnson, all of whom have played at Premier League level, are not good enough for the championship?

But this is the exactly the problem. You're assuming that just because players have played in the PL they are too good for the Championship, when we've come down in the past I remember players who looked capable PL players have just looked average Championship players. There is really very little difference in terms of quality with the bottom Premier League sides and the top Championship sides these days.

Konchesky was a solid PL player for years, but hardly looks spectacular in the Championship, you don't have to be a spectacular player to become a solid player in the PL.

Also, Nugent, Fernandes and Beckford hardly played in the PL to any distinction did they? Nugent and Beckford never really proved themselves to be much at all at that level and all the ManCity on another board I post on thought Fernandes was shit. Johnson was obviously a good PL player 3 years ago, but has been blighted with injuries and played about 2 games in 2 1/2 years or something silly.

 

[Kingy_85]

Whats so frustrating , for me anyway, is the current top 6.

With the exception of West Ham I can't honestly see how they are doing it.

Derby - well we all saw how good they where.

Crystal Palace - really?

Southampton - promotion mentality at best.

Leeds - for christ sake their starting 11 should be mid table at best.

M'Boro - Tony friggin Mowbray ! please!

I understand this is incredibly ignorant.

 

[spionfox]

Konchesky was a solid PL player for years, but hardly looks spectacular in the Championship, you don't have to be a spectacular player to become a solid player in the PL.

I thought as much earlier watching a team containing Sean Derry, Paddy Kenny and Clint Hill beat Chelsea!