Lineker v The BBC

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Rich B said:
A genuine asylum seeker is someone who applied in the correct manner and goes to the first safe country.

Mainland countries such as Germany France etc are all safe countries so why do you think they risk life and limb crossing the English Channel?

It isn't economic immigrants who traipse across the world traversing several safe countries to enter the UK by illegal means with no paperwork.
Just a point. A lot of them have mobile phones. How do they pay the bill?
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Rich, if you were deposed from the UK because people suddenly starting beating the shit out of, for example, forest fans, and were going the other way, would you stop at 'the first safe country', or would you prefer to get to somewhere where you might find others experiencing the same, and as far from the forest-fan-beaters as possible?

If you have travelled hundreds, maybe even thousands of miles, and you believed that there was a compassionate country with some of your kinsfolk, would you not also try the final leg?

What many anti-immigration people seem to forget here is fleeing the country is all well and good. But then you have to live wherever you end up, which can be pretty shit.

Also - What direct impact is it having on you personally? Why are you so bothered?

And before you say 'NHS, police force load blah blah blah' remember how many of our nurses have moved to the UK please and how utterly, utterly reliant the UK has been on migrant workforces to grow (several economic studies also proving economic migration is massively beneficial to the recipients?)


Your blame is in the wrong place. Migrants to this country do not come here to kill its people, they come to have a new life.
The living conditions we find ourselves in are the crippling underinvestment is the necessary growth by this government. Blame them, not people desperate to find something better.
 
Rich B said:
Just a point. A lot of them have mobile phones. How do they pay the bill?
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Oh and on this point, hopefully you're pretending.

In nations that are not 'developed nations' almost everything is done on a mobile phone. They require very little infrastructure and often the only lifeline. That includes banking as well as all the communications.

They are not comparatively expensive and are critical. Weird hill to die on.
 
I have no idea what I'd do in this hypothetical situation but if there was a choice of several safe countries I would seek the one with a welfare system to house and feed me.
I'm not too sure why tens of thousands of illegal immigrants living here free of charge and leeching off the country whilst our own homeless are ignored wouldn't bother anyone...
For the last time, I have zero problems with people coming through the right channels ( pardon the pun) to obtain gainful employment but major problem with freeloaders.
 
FOX Franks said:
Oh and on this point, hopefully you're pretending.

In nations that are not 'developed nations' almost everything is done on a mobile phone. They require very little infrastructure and often the only lifeline. That includes banking as well as all the communications.

They are not comparatively expensive and are critical. Weird hill to die on.
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Just a simple question. No paperwork but have smartphones. Just wondering how they pay the bills.
 
Rich B said:
I have no idea what I'd do in this hypothetical situation but if there was a choice of several safe countries I would seek the one with a welfare system to house and feed me.
I'm not too sure why tens of thousands of illegal immigrants living here free of charge and leeching off the country whilst our own homeless are ignored wouldn't bother anyone...
For the last time, I have zero problems with people coming through the right channels ( pardon the pun) to obtain gainful employment but major problem with freeloaders.
Click to expand...
If you firmly believe this ''I'm not too sure why tens of thousands of illegal immigrants living here free of charge and leeching off the country whilst our own homeless are ignored wouldn't bother anyone...'' then you are beyond hope and explanation.
 
If this whole story has got anyone in the mood for a bit of further research and context there’s a really good three part documentary series by Ken Burns currently available on the iPlayer called The US and the Holocaust.

It’s about the global response to the persecution of Jewish people all over Europe in the years leading up to the war and eventually, the holocaust.

Not an easy watch obviously but absolutely fascinating nonetheless. And it’s Ken Burns so brilliantly pieced together.
 
tedfoxxx said:
If this whole story has got anyone in the mood for a bit of further research and context there’s a really good three part documentary series by Ken Burns currently available on the iPlayer called The US and the Holocaust.

It’s about the global response to the persecution of Jewish people all over Europe in the years leading up to the war and eventually, the holocaust.

Not an easy watch obviously but absolutely fascinating nonetheless. And it’s Ken Burns so brilliantly pieced together.
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Didn’t he used to play for Forest?
 
Brown Nose said:
Yes I do disagree with Hitchens. I've read Peter for many years because he's an original thinker. He used to change his mind - after all, he went from the socialist workers party to being very conservative - but now I very rarely find things to agree with him on.

Just because the Nazis called themselves 'socialist' doesn't make them so. There are some similarities between extremes on the left and right in terms of population control. However, there are also many, many differences. The poem above posted by ted to me is a perfect illustration of the point Lineker was making and why it was an entirely valid one.
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BN,

I think the point Hitchens is trying to infer is that he believes that the left hijacked the perception that the Nazi party were right wing. Fascism is both left and right and the result is no one can have an opposing opinion. He makes this assertion precisely as a result of the comments you have stated in bold, I believe he thinks that because he has walked that journey and been in both camps so to speak. Hitchens IMO has a very real fear of what the left is capable of i.e. Russia (Bolsheviks, Stalin) /China (Mao)/Cambodia (Pol Pot). Whether he is right or wrong is surely their for debate and for his article to be examined and for the consensus to fall where it may?

I agree with the poem that Ted posted they are lessons from history that if ignored we are doomed to repeat. As for championing the post that I am a troll because I disagree with your point of view is disappointing, especially from you, the fact that in 1930's Germany the opposition was cancelled makes your observation futile. I wanted to understand what you posted hence I asked the question, it provides me context and an insight to what you are thinking, as you have stated this is why people debate, it allows us to get to the truth of the matter.

The reason for my point of view ( this applies to all who read this ) and why I am against the language that has been used by Lineker, is down to the fact that I have been in some very, very unpleasant parts of this world, that, as a direct result of ideology both left and right and their use of language, has resulted in some of the most heinous crimes I have had the misfortune to witness. It has devastated people and have at times, left me questioning my own faith in us as human beings.

The fact that others have told me to **** off and that I am a **** speaks more about their character and how they show understanding (rationale thinking) and empathy towards others they do not know. All because I dare to have a different opinion?

I think I will leave this here, thank you for taking the time to respond listening to my opinion and also for not shouting or swearing at me.
 
camberwell fox said:
If you firmly believe this ''I'm not too sure why tens of thousands of illegal immigrants living here free of charge and leeching off the country whilst our own homeless are ignored wouldn't bother anyone...'' then you are beyond hope and explanation.
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So it really doesn't bother you that these tens of thousands of illegals are over here?
 
Rich B said:
I have no idea what I'd do in this hypothetical situation but if there was a choice of several safe countries I would seek the one with a welfare system to house and feed me.
I'm not too sure why tens of thousands of illegal immigrants living here free of charge and leeching off the country whilst our own homeless are ignored wouldn't bother anyone...
For the last time, I have zero problems with people coming through the right channels ( pardon the pun) to obtain gainful employment but major problem with freeloaders.
Click to expand...
There is no 'right channel'. That has been shown to be pretty obvious.
 
Rich B said:
I have no idea what I'd do in this hypothetical situation but if there was a choice of several safe countries I would seek the one with a welfare system to house and feed me.
I'm not too sure why tens of thousands of illegal immigrants living here free of charge and leeching off the country whilst our own homeless are ignored wouldn't bother anyone...
For the last time, I have zero problems with people coming through the right channels ( pardon the pun) to obtain gainful employment but major problem with freeloaders.
Click to expand...
You have no friends then? You'd really pick one with slightly better welfare (which is demonstrably not what a lot of economic migrants are here for) than one that you might make friends or have some support in?
 
Rich B said:
I'm not too sure why tens of thousands of illegal immigrants living here free of charge and leeching off the country whilst our own homeless are ignored wouldn't bother anyone...
Click to expand...
Because it's total bollocks and a problem invited by Farage and the right wing to keep you angry at people who have little to no impact on your life.

Do you hate the royals too? Bloody freeloaders.
 
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