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There'll always be music. But it's dead as the cultural force it used to be. That was assured by the perfect storm of the emergence of all those godawful "talent" shows at the turn of the century followed by the advent of streaming that killed the need to actually buy music.

The popular music that we all know, basically rock & roll & it's various offshoots, was a 20th century art form. We're well into the next century & it's on it's way to becoming a niche interest in the same way that folk or classical music is.

All of the great pop music revolutions, it's important to remember, from jazz & blues through 50s rock & roll & soul to the experimentation of the 60s that lead to psychedelia, hard rock & metal, through to glam, disco, punk, hiphop, acid house/rave & grunge came from OUTSIDE the industry. At street level, created by non conformists & mavericks. They were then picked up by the industry when they smelled money. Left to itself the industry produces **** all of any real interest. Just bland aural wallpaper. Which to be frank is pretty much enough for most people & always has been.
If it was left to the industry we'd have been listening to derivatives of Max Bygraves for 70 years.
Decca records famously turned down signing the Beatles because " guitar groups are over " Which pretty much sums it up.

Sadly those mavericks no longer have a platform. It's often forgotten that as well as being a creative endeavour & an artistic outlet, music was also a way of earning a living. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard old rockers say in interviews that while learning their trade in club dance bands in the late 50s & early 60s they were suddenly earning more money than their parents at 15 or 16.

How much easier is it to spend time rehearsing, writing,composing & refining your art if you're getting paid to do it full time rather than having to squeeze it in 2 nights a week while working in some factory, warehouse or office ? But the only live music that pays now is at the top end for superstars that can sell out stadia as thanks to the death of recorded music buying thats now the only way anyone makes money outside of film & video game soundtracks & ****ing iphone ads. meanwhile 1500 smaller venues have closed in the UK in the last 20 years. That covers everything from the back rooms of pubs to places the size of the Poly arena. The old gig circuit of places like the Charlotte & other town's versions of it is long gone. As is the university/college circuit that ran parallel with it.

The only chance you ahve now is to go to a BPI music college at school age. If you do that you get taught to be commercially viable (i.e. to work to a bland formula & take no risks) Do that & you can be Adele. Otherwise you're ****ed.

So, take your chance, upload your track to youtube or tiktok & cross your fingers that you can stand out amongst the thousands of others & the backdrop of competition from cat videos, recordings of some **** playing a video game & political dogshit. Good luck with that.

EDIT - The exception to this is when they rebrand hiphop every few years, call it a different name even though it sounds exactly the same as before ( UK Garage, Grime, Drill...whats next ? How about Trifle ? Stencil ? Twiglet ? Why not ? All perfectly servicable words. Go on, go for it ) & big up some chavvy twat to sell some trainers.
 
At street level, created by non conformists & mavericks.
And that is why I say music is not dead. Music is in the heart and soul of some people. It starts early; you'll hear it in playgrounds and it nurtures. Adolescents pursue it out of desire to express themselves. Adults try to make a living out of what they love doing (most musicians don't 'make it') In the beginning, it's never about money.

Yes, the music industry is a leach. It moneterises, if chews up and spits out. It breaks people. But it's not all there is to music. It gets it's grubby mits on a tiny percentage of it in truth.
 
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There'll always be music. But it's dead as the cultural force it used to be. That was assured by the perfect storm of the emergence of all those godawful "talent" shows at the turn of the century followed by the advent of streaming that killed the need to actually buy music.

The popular music that we all know, basically rock & roll & it's various offshoots, was a 20th century art form. We're well into the next century & it's on it's way to becoming a niche interest in the same way that folk or classical music is.

All of the great pop music revolutions, it's important to remember, from jazz & blues through 50s rock & roll & soul to the experimentation of the 60s that lead to psychedelia, hard rock & metal, through to glam, disco, punk, hiphop, acid house/rave & grunge came from OUTSIDE the industry. At street level, created by non conformists & mavericks. They were then picked up by the industry when they smelled money. Left to itself the industry produces **** all of any real interest. Just bland aural wallpaper. Which to be frank is pretty much enough for most people & always has been.
If it was left to the industry we'd have been listening to derivatives of Max Bygraves for 70 years.
Decca records famously turned down signing the Beatles because " guitar groups are over " Which pretty much sums it up.

Sadly those mavericks no longer have a platform. It's often forgotten that as well as being a creative endeavour & an artistic outlet, music was also a way of earning a living. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard old rockers say in interviews that while learning their trade in club dance bands in the late 50s & early 60s they were suddenly earning more money than their parents at 15 or 16.

How much easier is it to spend time rehearsing, writing,composing & refining your art if you're getting paid to do it full time rather than having to squeeze it in 2 nights a week while working in some factory, warehouse or office ? But the only live music that pays now is at the top end for superstars that can sell out stadia as thanks to the death of recorded music buying thats now the only way anyone makes money outside of film & video game soundtracks & ****ing iphone ads. meanwhile 1500 smaller venues have closed in the UK in the last 20 years. That covers everything from the back rooms of pubs to places the size of the Poly arena. The old gig circuit of places like the Charlotte & other town's versions of it is long gone. As is the university/college circuit that ran parallel with it.

The only chance you ahve now is to go to a BPI music college at school age. If you do that you get taught to be commercially viable (i.e. to work to a bland formula & take no risks) Do that & you can be Adele. Otherwise you're ****ed.

So, take your chance, upload your track to youtube or tiktok & cross your fingers that you can stand out amongst the thousands of others & the backdrop of competition from cat videos, recordings of some **** playing a video game & political dogshit. Good luck with that.

EDIT - The exception to this is when they rebrand hiphop every few years, call it a different name even though it sounds exactly the same as before ( UK Garage, Grime, Drill...whats next ? How about Trifle ? Stencil ? Twiglet ? Why not ? All perfectly servicable words. Go on, go for it ) & big up some chavvy twat to sell some trainers.
I was going to say that hip hop/rap seems to be maybe the only genre that feels outside of what you’re saying, but then I saw your edit said that :023:
 
Is there any genuinely good new music? Isn't popular music done as a genre?

It had 50 years which is a good run. But there are only so many variations. I don't think I know a new song from the last few years that has any originality or quality.

Can someone try to prove me wrong?
 
In 1986 I said (whilst under the influence of a pint or two) that 'Pop music will be dead in 25 years'.
I was alluding to the thought that pop music, as we know it, suddenly appeared overnight in 1955 (Ok, maybe 1954-ish). 3 years earlier, there was popular music (there always has been) but things were changing in a big way. Bakelite and then vinyl came along and records could be made that you could fit a 3-4 minute song on each side.

All of a sudden, pop music appeared. Rock n Roll appeared. Music charts appeared. Teenagers appeared.

I wasn’t sure, but I thought (in 1986) that pop music will just lose its position and it wouldn’t be as important as it had been for the previous 30 years. Everything comes to an end. Video (gaming) killed the radio star.

No, not totally true. Pop music as we know it could only go so far – and it’s gone as far as it can go. There never will be another new pop-music style like we used to get every thirteen years. Nobody can come up with something that hasn’t been done before.

Bring on the AI.
 
Paul Simon knew it. He said all along. "You Can Call Me AI"

And just as an aside, another of his songs, "Bridge Over Troubled Water" doesn't have a bridge. Perhaps written by a very early version of Chat GPT and failed to honour the request for a bridge? Who knows? I know. But who am I? You know. Do you? Maybe, or maybe not but either way, you know who to vote for (you tossers).
 
There will always be pop music, it's just what's popular at the time, or maybe what people are told is popular. It is based upon what went on before. It sometimes recycles, e.g. The Rolling Stones going over to the USA and hanging out with the blues musicians who wrote the songs they covered, thus introducing white Americans to the black music that was right beneath their noses.
Many bands put their music on Spotify etc. and hope it will be listened to by somebody. I use Tidal and it generates a Daily Discovery list of songs it thinks I'll like based upon my previous choices. It covers a wide range of types of music, because that's my thing. Many are small bands I would never otherwise listen to, so it opens my ears to "new" music.
Many music venues have disappeared from the UK, but they still exist in other countries. In Granada there are several ventures who have live bands, several times a week. Some are cover bands (not my thing), but many are "original", including several low-key International acts. That's aside from the many bars with flamenco guitarists etc.
My son is in a death/black metal band and they played more gigs in the EU than the UK, it's wherever the demand is (Even The Beatles got off the ground in Hamburg) I say "played" because that was pre-Brexit, and we all know that's another story......
 
I read of a band playing at a local club, they were "swamp pop".... new one on me, that one. Also listed were cajun and zydeco so I had a bit of a clue... and swamp rock... and blues... and r&b... maybe they're desperate for an audience. I almost went just to find out if they did UK grunge garage drill too.

On a related theme, you've not known despair (unintentionally appropriate) until you've heard a French accented, dodgy cover of a blues classic. Dear lord, I considered walking home, and it's a good 10 miles.
 
When was the last time someone on here heard a new track, that was in a genre that was new, and it sounded really good?
Gen U ine question.
 
When was the last time someone on here heard a new track, that was in a genre that was new, and it sounded really good?
Gen U ine question.
Maybe not a new genre, and not what I’d usually would call my cup of tea, but this one took me off guard and blew me away.

 
Remarkable.
I't's not my cuppa either - I wouldn't be downloading, buying this kind of stuff but YES! This is trying and succeding in not being someone else (or anyone I've spent time listening to..). He is very good, not my thing, but I do appreciate his talent and skills.
I'll stand by people doing something different that I don't like much, over somebody else trying badly to do somthing I do like musically. If I want to hear The Stooges, I'll play The Stooges.

A few weeks ago, I saw Alicia Edelweiss. She is rather different. I didn't understand what she was doing - she seemed to be in a far away place - and when I spoke to her afterwards, she seemed totaly crazy.
She was a lot more un-hinged than shown in the clip below.

I am for this kind of stuff. Commercialism? Doing music as a business? No thanks.

 
I hadn't heard either of the above before, but liked them both. My musical tastes are often a bit on the fringes (Wild Man Fischer, Robert Wyatt, Ivor Cutler etc. ). Although I still like some "mainstream" stuff (Stones, Led Zep, Zappa, Bowie, Iggy etc.). I think as long as it's entertaining and they are good musicians and not a generic formulated product of producers or record companies, then music will still keep its appeal, if only for a niche market. Creativity doesn't grow on trees, but still needs to be nurtured.
 
There'll always be music. But it's dead as the cultural force it used to be. That was assured by the perfect storm of the emergence of all those godawful "talent" shows at the turn of the century followed by the advent of streaming that killed the need to actually buy music.

The popular music that we all know, basically rock & roll & it's various offshoots, was a 20th century art form. We're well into the next century & it's on it's way to becoming a niche interest in the same way that folk or classical music is.

All of the great pop music revolutions, it's important to remember, from jazz & blues through 50s rock & roll & soul to the experimentation of the 60s that lead to psychedelia, hard rock & metal, through to glam, disco, punk, hiphop, acid house/rave & grunge came from OUTSIDE the industry. At street level, created by non conformists & mavericks. They were then picked up by the industry when they smelled money. Left to itself the industry produces **** all of any real interest. Just bland aural wallpaper. Which to be frank is pretty much enough for most people & always has been.
If it was left to the industry we'd have been listening to derivatives of Max Bygraves for 70 years.
Decca records famously turned down signing the Beatles because " guitar groups are over " Which pretty much sums it up.

Sadly those mavericks no longer have a platform. It's often forgotten that as well as being a creative endeavour & an artistic outlet, music was also a way of earning a living. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard old rockers say in interviews that while learning their trade in club dance bands in the late 50s & early 60s they were suddenly earning more money than their parents at 15 or 16.

How much easier is it to spend time rehearsing, writing,composing & refining your art if you're getting paid to do it full time rather than having to squeeze it in 2 nights a week while working in some factory, warehouse or office ? But the only live music that pays now is at the top end for superstars that can sell out stadia as thanks to the death of recorded music buying thats now the only way anyone makes money outside of film & video game soundtracks & ****ing iphone ads. meanwhile 1500 smaller venues have closed in the UK in the last 20 years. That covers everything from the back rooms of pubs to places the size of the Poly arena. The old gig circuit of places like the Charlotte & other town's versions of it is long gone. As is the university/college circuit that ran parallel with it.

The only chance you ahve now is to go to a BPI music college at school age. If you do that you get taught to be commercially viable (i.e. to work to a bland formula & take no risks) Do that & you can be Adele. Otherwise you're ****ed.

So, take your chance, upload your track to youtube or tiktok & cross your fingers that you can stand out amongst the thousands of others & the backdrop of competition from cat videos, recordings of some **** playing a video game & political dogshit. Good luck with that.

EDIT - The exception to this is when they rebrand hiphop every few years, call it a different name even though it sounds exactly the same as before ( UK Garage, Grime, Drill...whats next ? How about Trifle ? Stencil ? Twiglet ? Why not ? All perfectly servicable words. Go on, go for it ) & big up some chavvy twat to sell some trainers.
Music, like trying your hand at starting a business or doing anything vaguely creative or socially beneficial, is being forced out by the ****s in charge.

Every time the world changes, the rich stay ahead because they have access to something others do not. A long time ago it was good nutrition, then access to good education, then nepotism, and even now it's the option to try many things in a well-backed scenario with very little risk if they do fail.

Nothing new and nothing to see here, really.

Except this shitty policy that effectively says you can only do something you love if you love something that 'pays for itself'. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66216005

Whilst I went to university to increase my chances of securing a good long term career, I know lots of other people that went for the experience and are quite simply better people because of it. One of my friends did a maths degree then went into nursing, but they learnt a lot along the way.
University education is a good thing. And whilst people are living ever longer, we're complaining about an extra three years of education - it's madness.
 
This is the thinking behind this particular policy, which is unusual even by the government's standards for it's bare-faced shittery - but just imagine what a self-own it is to openly have to admit "Educated people won't want to vote for us"

1689754789012.png
 
This is the thinking behind this particular policy, which is unusual even by the government's standards for it's bare-faced shittery - but just imagine what a self-own it is to openly have to admit "Educated people won't want to vote for us"

View attachment 17862
Ah yes. The oft cited " leftist liberal elite "

I'm assuming anti intellectual bullshit like this isn't actually aimed at me. After all I've been alive to witness everything about this country from party politics to general attitudes drift massively to the right over the last 40 years. I can only conclude that the leftist elite must be really shit at being a leftist elite.

Either that or it's all just made up bollocks copied from US Republican strategy aimed at people with the IQ of a fish finger.
 
It's Friday nite.

I got myself a few bottles of beer, as you do, and plugged in my electric bass to badly run through a few tunes.

The wife, for no reason at all, started singing an old song and I thought, 'Right - I'm gonna play that!'

Here's Bad Manners for you. They don't make 'em like this no more.
 
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